Posted on 09/11/2004 12:18:55 PM PDT by ambrose
Edited on 09/12/2004 12:24:22 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Authentic or not, Bush memos no big deal to retired guardsmen
By ELLIOTT MINOR
Associated Press Writer
Retired National Guard members and even an Army Reservist home on leave from Iraq say they aren't bothered by memos indicating President Bush was suspended from flying because he skipped a medical exam and missed six months of training with his Texas Air National Guard unit during the Vietnam war.
They said it's common for Guard members and reservists to miss drills - even up to six months - because of job conflicts, family problems or illness, and the members are encouraged to make up the drills so they don't lose pay or eligibility for retirement benefits.
"We worked around it. There's all kinds of situations ... that cause a person to go out of state for a period of time," said Ralph Bradley, 56, who served three years in Vietnam with the Air Force and 17 years with the Georgia Army National Guard.
Bush's performance as a fighter pilot in the Texas Guard became a focus of Democratic criticism this week with the newly unearthed memos that his opponents say show Bush shirked his National Guard duties - a charge that Bush denies.
"It's just politics. That's what they are doing; it's kind of obvious," said Neal Eubanks of nearby Leesburg, who served 39 years in the military - 23 in the Air Force and 16 in the Georgia Army National Guard.
Bush's Democratic challenger, John Kerry, won three Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star in Vietnam. But a group sponsoring television ads challenging his wartime record contends Kerry's own fire caused the wound that brought his first Purple Heart. Navy records and other veterans don't support the charge.
Eubanks said it's time the presidential candidates move beyond their military records and focus on the issues, such as the economy and unemployment.
"You don't see Korean veterans or World War II veterans or Grenada veterans always talking about 'I served here and I served there,'" said Eubanks, 67, a Bush supporter. "I think those people in Vietnam were heros. I realize it was bad and it was hard on a lot of people, but it's over with."
Army Reserve Sgt. Tim Wilding, 37, of Jefferson City, Mo., back home for two weeks of leave from Iraq, said he remains a staunch Bush supporter and has come across only one other military member who publicly supports Kerry.
As for reports - and criticism - that Bush may have sought to get out of Guard drills for several months in 1972, Wilding said: "It's stupid. They're trying to dig up crap.
"A lot of guys don't serve for four or five months at a time. They've got other stuff going on. They'll make it up later on, or they just won't get paid. That's really no big deal to a lot of National Guard soldiers. I don't see how it's relevant now," said Wilding, who has served nearly 20 years as an Army Reservist and has been stationed just north of Baghdad with the 428th Transportation Company.
Frank Jones, 60, of Troy, N.Y., a Vietnam veteran and a Republican, said he's angered by reports that Bush got preferential treatment in the Texas Guard, but he said favoritism and politics were not surprising in the National Guard.
Jones, who was an Army helicopter pilot in Vietnam from 1970 to 1971 before serving 16 years in the National Guard, said he hasn't decided who to vote for in November but admits the daily news of soldier deaths in Iraq combined with the political furor surrounding the candidates' military records is coloring his perception of this campaign.
"I'm really in neither camp at this point," Jones aid. "However, I do see a direct correlation to Vietnam. The body count is really starting to get to me."
Savannah attorney Joseph Brennan, who flew C-130 transport planes as an Air Force pilot in Vietnam and served in the Georgia Air National Guard from 1977 to 1998, said he doesn't understand what the big deal is about the military records of Bush or Kerry.
Brennan, 57, voted for Bush in 2000 and said what he's heard or read about Bush's Vietnam-era Guard stint won't stop him from voting for the president again.
"I don't understand why there's so much concern over this," he said. "Whether someone serves in Vietnam or not has nothing to do with their qualifications to be president of this country."
===============================================================
At this link (note, .pdf file):
http://diodon349.com/Torpedoman/TMA_newsletter/TMA_Newsletter_Nov2003.pdf
Ahmad Majied of Albany, GA, is listed as a new member of the association (the association is not ID'd. Torpedomen? From the newsletter they seem to be from all kinds of surface ships. I was never in the Navy so I'm, er, "at sea" here). Note that here, "30-year Navy veteran" Majied lists "63-66" as his years of service. Maybe those are the years that applied to the torpedomen's association? Well, that gives him just 67-72 to spend five years in Vietnam as a SEAL which gives him little time off (even to go to BUDS, which is necessary before he could do frogman stuff).
I have sent this information with his other claim in the other story to Authentiseal. If he's bogus, AP did it to us again. I have had Authentiseal respond to me within my deadline cycle for daily news before.
HEY! Verdict's in -- He's a phony. WAY TO GO AP. A fact I checked in under an hour, you didn't. Pro reporters, my arse.
> Please go to www.authentiseal.org/realitycheck.htm for specific
> information on claims most often made by SEAL imposters & SEAL duties.
>
AP flip flops their headlines faster than Kerry flip flops on....everything else.
Someone should contact this address:
Good article, if they talked to millions of retired or prior service guardsmen and reservist they will get the same sort of answers, if they were being honest anyways.
This isn't the same article as the one you posted.
This whole article should be about the forgeries. HELLO???
I bet some guys have said, "Wow, that's low that they are fabricating documents and using a good man whose been in his grave twenty years (who liked GWB) to hit the CIC in wartime to elect a known traitor." Odd that that didn't make the AP article.
Different article than that other one.
There is not reference in this article to the Navy SEAL at this similar post (by Times Daily, AL):
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1213259/posts
Ahmad Majied of Albany says the latest allegations about Bush's military record are more troubling to him than allegations about service honors leveled at Democratic challenger Kerry. Majied, a Democrat from Albany who served 30 years in the Navy, including five years as a SEAL in Vietnam, said the memos support his belief that Bush was a "playboy" during his service years. "He had enough money to get what he wanted," Majied said. "I think his main concern was not to go to Southeast Asia. I bet he never dreamed it would come back to haunt him."
Something foul is afoot at the Circle K.
This an entirely different article. Totally different spin than that other one.
If by coincidence, this AP story shows up only a few times on Google News, while the more negative one is slammed on the papers across the country.
This is also "push interviewing"... That they don't even ask about the forgery aspect is a dead giveaway.
They probably went up to these guys and said "What do you think about the reports that________" Without ever mentioning the forgery reports.
Scum.
I am a Naval Reservist and we've been talking about this for months. It is routine for guys to miss drills and reschedule for another date or to do a group of them all at one time as prior reschedules so that they can miss weekends in the future. I am in a squadron as well and it makes no difference.
Once again, the MSM, that spends most of its time being anti-military, has no clue how the military really works. Same goes for the lefties that forged these docs...at least fake something that would matter.
Look at the men quoted in the articles.
_________________________________________________________________
Men quoted from the first article posted by CW:
Ralph Bradley
Frank Jones
Tim Wilding
Jim Driscoll
Ahmad Majied
Neal Eubanks
Men quoted from ambrose’s article:
Ralph Bradley
Frank Jones
Tim Wilding
Neal Eubanks
Joseph Brennan
______________________________________________________________
It would seem that one reporter was not hung over enough to realize that Ahmad Majied was not a source he wanted to quote as a former Navy SEAL.
LOL!
Also, the tone of the two articles could not be more at odds...
The more negative article hit the wires later than this one here. So I'm thinking that an editor overruled the writers and made it more negative.
Of course I know he meant to say "JFK should move beyond his military record". Yes, that is what he meant to say. Trust the AP to screw it up.
I don't realize how these 2 stories could have happened. It could be dueling editors, but to have 2 separate stories quoting almost the identical men--with different tones?
I know, I have been all three, active duty, national guard and reservist, I myself have missed up to six months of scheduled duty because of personal problems family and school and work conflicts, that doesnt matter though to the MSM, remember a million voices supporting the president doesnt outweigh one democrat who never served in the guard.
Barely.
The tone is entirely different. The other one has a negative headline, and leads off with the "angry" guy.
That's my whole point. Both are AP articles. Both use exactly the same quotes. But they are 180 degrees out in meaning. If that isn't a flip flop, nothing is.
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