Posted on 09/10/2004 5:47:19 PM PDT by Rome2000
Marcel Matley was used by the Democrats to vouch for the aunthenticity of the Vince Foster suicide note
Robert Stack as narrator: Our next story concerns the ontroversial suicide of a high-powered Washington attorney. It threatens to become one of the biggest political scandals of our time. It began with a somber announcement, and remains for many an unsolved mystery.
Bill Clinton: I have just met with the White House staff, ah, to basically talk with them a little bit about the death of my friend of 42 years, Vince Foster....
Robert Stack: On July 20, 1993, the country was shocked by the unexpected death of 48-year-old Vincent W. Foster, White House deputy counsel and close personal confidante of the Clintons.
Foster was found dead in Fort Marcy Park, across the Potomac River from Washington. He had been shot once in the head. The wound was apparently self-inflicted.
At the time of his death, Vince Foster had become a central figure in the growing Whitewater scandal. Two separate investigations, by the United States park police and by the FBI for independent counsel Robert Fiske, concluded that Foster had indeed taken his own life.
Perhaps inevitably in a case with serious political ramifications, there were serious doubts concerning Foster's suicide. Some of the most controversial reports were published in the conservative Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.
Chris Ruddy: Vince Foster was the highest federal official to die under suspicious circumstances since the death of President Kennedy. I don't push a non-suicide theory. I have never said Vince Foster was murdered. I have said that police are trained to treat every suicide, no matter how apparently, as a homicide, as a murder first until the facts prove otherwise. What is clear in this case is the police procedure was never followed.
Robert Stack: For Christopher Ruddy and many others, one of the keys to this case is an unsigned "suicide" note allegedly written by Vince Foster. This is a copy of the reconstructed note which, when found, had been ripped into 28 pieces. It read in part:
[Background voice reads while a typed overlay shows the following words:]
I have made mistakes from ignorance, inexperience and overwork.
I did not knowingly violate any law or standard of conduct.
No one in the White House, to my knowledge, violated any law or standard of conduct ---
[Here the sentence was truncated. Left out was the rest of the sentence - "including any action in the travel office."]
I was not meant for the job or the spotlight of public life in Washington. Here ruining people is considered sport.
Robert Stack: The shredded note was found in Foster's briefcase, four days after his death. Curiously, White House council Bernard Nussbaum had earlier inspected the contents of the briefcase but didn't find the note. This led to widespread skepticism concerning the document's authenticity.
On October 25, 1995, a team of well-known handwriting experts held a press conference in Washington. They had been hired by the editor of a independent financial news letter.
Each of the experts had examined a photocopy of the alleged "suicide" note and concluded that it was a forgery.
The death of Vince Foster was suddenly cast in a whole new light. If the note was forged, was it part of a coverup by the Clinton administration or was it evidence that Vince Foster had been murdered?
Is there any substance to the claim that the "suicide" note was forged? The experts believe that the forger studied an existing document handwritten by Vince Foster, then copied his writing style letter by letter.
To examine this remarkable claim, we invited the experts to meet with us in Boston. Blowups of both the "suicide" note and several random known samples of Foster's writing were provided.
Then we asked the experts exactly what led them to their conclusions.
For purposes of the demonstration, the "suicide" note is labeled Q1, referred to as the questioned document. The known samples are labeled K1 through K12. Ronald Rice, a handwriting examiner who has worked for the state of Massachusetts, is convinced that the note was forged.
Ronald Rice [speaking as he shows the writing]: If we compare the formation of the cursive capital I, here on the questioned document, to the formation of the capital I, here on the known document authored by Mr. Foster, we can plainly see it is not the same. It's an entirely different letter formation. One, two, three strokes ---
Robert Stack: Rice went on to describe other discrepancies. For example, in the "suicide" note the letter "o" is open; by contrast, in the known samples it is closed. In addition, Rice claims that the letter "B" in the note was made with at least four strokes of the pen. In the known sample he says the letter was written with one continuous stroke. Rice says he has found numerous discrepancies which prove to him that the "suicide" note was not written by Vince Foster.
Ronald Rice: My studied examination, ah, in excess of forty hours I spent with this - ah, concluded that this was a document that, ah, was very skeptical, and it was my opinion that it was a forgery.
Robert Stack: Many handwriting analysts would say that Foster's writing was typified by "U"-shaped strokes known as swags. Reginald Alton of Oxford University in England believes the forger had a difficult time imitating Foster's graceful style.
Reginald Alton: When Foster writes "Clintons", the "in" is an elegant double swag. When the forger writes "Clintons" we find the strokes are not easy and elegant and not really on form at t'all. There were an inordinate amount of hesitation dots found in the document.
Robert Stack: "Hesitation dots" are small blobs of ink left where the pen starts or stops. Anthony Iantosca believes that the presence of so many dots indicates that the "suicide" note was deliberately and painstakingly copied, rather than written in a formal hand.
Anothony Iantosca: Take a look at the capital letter "N". You'll see four distinct hesitation dots. Starting at the top where the pen comes in contact with the paper it stops, he comes down and it stops at the bottom - he comes back up and retraces - he comes back down again you see a third hesitation dot - he stops, he comes back up and you'll see a heavy concentration of ink right here for the fourth hesitation dot.
Robert Stack: Retired homicide investigator Vincent Scalise is a certified document examiner. He points to the fact that the words beginning with the letters "th", whether the "t" is capitalized or lower case, are much more crudely written in the "suicide" note than known samples. But can the differences be explained - perhaps by stress - the stress of a man about to kill himself? These experts give no credence to the argument.
Vincent Scalice: Your handwriting would not change because you are under that type of stress - you might get a little sloppier - might get a little less clear - but your style of writing normally would not change.
Robert Stack: Is it possible that the experts are right? Could the "suicide" note of one of President Clinton's most trusted advisors have been forged? The implications are staggering - but only if these particular experts are correct. At least one other expert says they are not.
Marcel Matley: There is nothing in the questioned document that would support any finding of forgery. And the things that are brought forth - the apparent fragmentation - and those things are explained by the fact that we have a deteriorated copy and that fact that the man was under some emotional stress at the time.
Robert Stack: Marcel Matley is convinced that the other experts are wrong. Q1 on the left side represents the "suicide" note. K1 through K11 on the right side represents the known samples.
Marcel Matley: First is the word "the". We have three "the"s from the suicide note and three from the first known samples. You cannot tell the difference in these words. The only thing that, ah - that might be a difference is here, where it is deteriorated - this is from the photocopy that has been copied too often. The loop is gone and the stem is gone. The second word "to", we have four of them in the questioned document, one of which is where the tear is, so we can ignore it. But you notice these three "to"s have differences among them. We go to K9 and K10, we get three more words "to", we have the same differences.
The word "Clinton" was mentioned. First, we do have a tear at the end of the word, which we have to ignore, but otherwise the only notable difference is the final "s". But that doesn't make any difference, because in the suicide note Foster used two styles of "s". In his known sample he uses the same two styles of "s", so from comparing these words the conclusion is: the same person wrote both writings.
Robert Stack: Did Vince Foster write the "suicide" note? Were these the final thoughts of a man overwhelmed by the cold realities of politics in Washington or, as critics of the Clinton administration contend, is the note part of an elaborate coverup?
In the end there are still many, many questions to be answered. The ongoing investigation of both the Whitewater scandal and Vince Foster suicide in all likelihood will continue for some time to come. Given the explosive political nature of the case, it is quite possible we will never know the entire story behind the death of Vince Foster.
WOW! Great work!
Anyone care to take a guess at what this did to Shrillary's chances in '08?
Was he recommended to CBS by the DNC?
Did they find him in the yellow pages?.
Part of the problem in assessing suicide is that about 15% of all suicides have no threats or other indications of suicidal intent. The fact that this "note" was quickly described as a "suicide note," no doubt, contributed to the quick assumption by the public and others as to the fact of the suicide.
Did not ever get a degree?
This "expert" is not a trained or experienced investigator. No law enforcement experience or training...How much "criminal investigation" training has she had ? Apparently NONE... Yeah she's an " expert for hire". That means she is from "out of town".
The FBI has specialists in that field.
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Who are Dan Rather's experts?
Matley - Clinton connected.
Moore - Clinton connected.
Weird.
DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY DID THIS INTERVIEW WITH US PRIOR TO THE 60 MINUTES BROADCAST.
HE LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AND THE SIGNATURES OF COLONEL JERRY KILLIAN.... COMPARING KNOWN DOCUMENTS WITH THE COLONEL'S SIGNATURE ON THE NEWSLY DISCOVERED ONES.
Matley: "WE LOOK BASICALLY AT WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT FEATURES TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S THE SAME PERSON OR NOT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENTIFYING THEM.
I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR AVAILABLE HANDWRITING EVIDENCE, YES. THIS IS THE SAME PERSON."
Rather: MATLEY FINDS THE SIGNAT'URES TO BE SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE...WE TALKED TO HIM AGAIN TODAY BY SATELLITE.
Matley "SINCE IT IS REPRESENTED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINITELY HIS... THEN WE CAN CONCLUDE THEY ARE HIS SIGNATURES."
Rather: "ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT QUESTIONS COME ABOUT THESE. WE'RE NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'RE SURPRISED."
Matley: "I KNEW GOING IN THAT THIS WAS DYNAMITE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND I KNEW THAT POTENTIALLY IT WAS FAR MORE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO ME PROFESSIONALLY THAN BENEFIT ME. AND I KNEW THAT. BUT WE SEEK THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT YOURSELF OUT. TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND TAKE WHAT COMES FROM IT."
Yes, 'deteriorated copy' is a term that comes in handy when this 'handwriting specialist' is questioned. You would think that since there are zero original documents to look at Rather would have wanted at least 2 or 3 experts before he came out calling Pres.Bush a liar.
The fact this is the one that verified Vince Foster's suicide note is too rich. Priceless really.
This guy seems to have a pretty thin resume, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he is an expert at handwriting analysis. He claims no expertise with respect to determining authenticity of typed documents. As was pointed out on another thread, that is the gut issue here and he has no more expertise than I do. The best that he can do to support Honest Dan's case is to attest to the authenticity of the signatures. So what? The signatures easily could have been photocopied from the genuine memos that the White House released and cut and pasted onto the forged memos before they were recopied umpteen times to produce the "degraded" copies that Matley reviewed.
In a part of the Rather interview with Mately tonight there was one line that stopped me cold--and it hasn't been talked about or noticed.
Mately said something about how he knew he'd be under scrutiny and how the opinion might affect his career...BUT then he said, "WE HAD TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH."
Who is "WE" Experts are supposed to be independent with no ax to grind. It sounded to me that this was a cause dear to Mr. Mately's heart.
To find out he's been a Democrat shill before just puts him in the same class as Private Investigator Anthony Pellicano who testified as an 'independent investigator' that the Clinton/Flowers tapes had been dubbed. It wasn't until years later that everyone learned he was a Democratic operative.
Yeah, this guy apparently needs to find out the "Truth" about a lot of things, like the Vince Foster note that also magically appeared one day.
I have made mistakes from ignorance, inexperience and overwork.
I did not knowingly violate any law or standard of conduct.
No one in the White House, to my knowledge, violated any law or standard of conduct ---
[Here the sentence was truncated. Left out was the rest of the sentence - "including any action in the travel office."]
I was not meant for the job or the spotlight of public life in Washington. Here ruining people is considered sport.
Dan Rather/Matley and CBS's Fahmy Malak?
Exactly!>/B>. You make a great point. This Matley slug is a one trick (and one party) pony!
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