Hideous, Stupid and Barbaric (Anti-Passion Alert!)

Toronto Sun ^ | 2/25/2004 | Michael Coren

[Paulus Invictus]

It's a Catholic movie made by a dedicated Catholic, hence the presumed bias of "too much Mary" as compared to the Biblical accounts of the last mortal days of Christ.

The Gospels tell of five Marys: Mary, the mother of Jesus; Mary Magdalene; Mary the sister of Laza

Matthew has Mary Magdalene and the Mary the mother of James and Joses at the scene of the crucifixion. Mark identifies the two same women at the scene. Luke simply says there were "the women that followed him from Galilee," but mentions no names. The only mention of Mary the mother of Jesus as being at the scene was made in the Gospel of John, along with Mary the wife of Cleophas and Mary Magdalene. This does not mean, of course, that the other Gospel accounts are incorrect in the matter of who was present. The Gospel accounts differ in other respects, too.

There is no mention of any Mary being seen along the route to Golgotha. Catholic tradition may have her there, but not the Bible. I'm not being argumentative, but try to use the Bible as my source in the matter.

[Pyro7480]

You think all of this just because of altar girls!? You're certainly entitled to this opinion, but I think the modern "conception" of equality in regards to the sexes is more destructive than helpful.

[PoisedWoman]

You think all of this just because of altar girls!? You're certainly entitled to this opinion, but

Your condescending comment proves my point.

I think the modern "conception" of equality in regards to the sexes is more destructive than helpful.

Have you considered the priesthood?

[Pyro7480]

How is that condescending? If you don't like what the Catholic Church does, you have plenty of options. And yes, I have considered the priesthood, but I don't know if that's what God is calling me to do.

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

Evil seduces and beguiles. It is frequently attractive. If it was as ugly as director Gibson has portrayed, Jesus would not have had to die in agony. And agony is what it was.

Micheal should listen to his own words here. I too had to wrestle with alot of profound concepts after seeing this movie, however in the end I realized that alot of my "wrestling" was actually due to my weak faith, not problems with this film. Even after realizing that I still had difficulty in my own internal stuggle, it was a challenge for me to understand all that this movie brought out of me.

Now I am anxious to see it again this weekend. I feel like I have overcome my personal "demons" I hope. This reviewer on the otherhand it is obvious to me has failed at that same challenge. Unfortunately for him he failed in public and in his struggle he typed out and contradictory, scattershot rant is available for all the world to see.

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

I think the modern "conception" of equality in regards to the sexes is more destructive than helpful.

Have you considered the priesthood?

Have you considered that your problems aren't really with the Catholics "long knives" but an internal anger stemming from some sort of War of the Sexes? I understand that is an important issue, however I would suggest you "forgive them their tresspasses" of the Catholic Church's many many faults.

You just sound profoundly bitter and hateful.

[biblewonk]

Interesting.

[savedbygrace]

That's the silliest part of the film, IMO.

[Timesink]

This is some pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic blood cult.

So if the exact same movie had been made in the 1950s, it would have been okay?

[OLD REGGIE]

How often do you want??

I think the proper question is how often is she mentioned during and after the Passion?

[PoisedWoman]

Have you considered that your problems aren't really with the Catholics "long knives" but an internal anger stemming from some sort of War of the Sexes?

No problem, really. Just reality. It's a war started by Jesuits who absolutely savaged me in college, where I had the temerity to question them. I cannot begin to tell you the contempt I was subjected to for making 100%s, worse yet for often having the only perfect scores in a 60% men's college. Didn't I know my place? Such nasty glares, such turnings away in disgust, such long knives, day after day. No congratulations, no smiles, no pats on the back. Especially no pats, because heavens, I was an occasion of sin. Nothing more. They had zero interest in what they termed my "immortal soul." I don't think they believed that women had souls at all.

This discussion of Mel's movie has been extremely useful. After five years at FR, I am going to tender my resignation. Equating approval of the Passion with being a good person and worthy conservative disgusts me. Yes, such flame wars are going on on various threads. I don't want to be associated with the religious right any more. I don't want to be part of a pseudo-political movement that thinks it owns the President of the United States. You guys are going to kill him with your demands that he function as some sort of high priest of America. Pity, pity, pity. He's a good man with decent instincts.

"Profoundly bitter and hateful?" Because I don't like priests and didn't care all that much for The Passion? Yes, I'm angry! Name ten Freepers who aren't. But I'm no longer angry about the same things you are.

[liberallarry]

Catholics have been a favorite whipping boy of the media in the last 20 years

True. To blame Catholics for universal human failings is just as wrong as blaming Jews for them. It's hard to accept that we are all guilty of this stuff. It's much more satisfying to blame the other guy.

[Elsie]

In that case, you'll be disappointed to learn that Jesus, not Mary, steps on the snake ...

Genesis 3
15. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

[Elsie]

Why???...

perhaps this......

John 14
6. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[Elsie]

Are you female?

I just saw the movie last night with my wife and others from church, and when the flashback to Jesus stumbling as a small child was shown, my wife, as well as the ladies around us, all stiffened and sat up a bit straighter in their seats!

(thanks to the data I got yesterday about Veronica, I was the only one of our group to notice the cloth after she wiped Jesus' face....)

[Elsie]

There is no mention of any Mary being seen along the route to Golgotha. Catholic tradition may have her there, but not the Bible. I'm not being argumentative, but try to use the Bible as my source in the matter.

This is all true, but WHAT mother would NOT be following her son as he marched along to his death?

(There are way too MANY modern mothers that are plopped down in front of the boob tube, soaking up the gospel of Oprah and Jerry, as their children march, metaphorically to THEIR deaths!

[Cronos]

the focus on Mary may be Catholic

A mother's son is being flayed alive and tortured and executed. She knows he is innocent and does not deserve it. What else does a mother do but BE there for her son???

[Cronos]

Why this movie? Because it's not a PC movie.

[kittymyrib]

I agree with you. Many feminists today no longer believe that "Jesus is Lord", because certainly He should have chosen an equal number of men and women to be His disciples. They worship their gender as the most important thing in their lives...subjecting the faith itself to comply with the feminist doctrine. Christian women, on the other hand, receive their God-given roles as wives, mothers, and servants of the Lord with thanksgiving. Think of our grandmothers and great-grandmothers. Compare them to the women you know today. Who was happier? Who had the more worthwhile life? Who will be remembered as possessing the finer qualities of love and devotion and dignity?

[Cronos]

 Recently, for example, word came down from Rome that altar girls were no longer permissible

http://www.catholic-ew.org.uk/CN/03/031021.htm

Press Release from the Catholic Communications Service issued on 21 October 2003

ALTAR GIRLS SET TO RETAIN BACKING OF THE HOLY SEE

Altar girls are to keep the backing of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, it has emerged at a meeting at the Vatican.