Are the Arabs, Arab?

Fontpagemagazine ^ | 22-04 | David Yeagley

[Cronos]

The remnants of the mongol army stayed in the region and intermarried.

Not true in the case of lands south of Central Asia. They were driven out. The ruling elites in Central Asia were Turkic-Mongols like Timur e Lang whose house the Timurids ruled Samarkand -- which was the greatest city after Baghdad had been raised by Hulega. Samarkand was renowned as a city of great architecture and art.

[Cronos]

. I question why beliefs in something that cannot be proven, are defended so zealously, sometimes to the point of violence.

It's human nature. We'd always fight about something. He**, if all of us were the same relgion, same skin colour, same ethnic group, same language, same height, same weight, same features, we'd stiull argue between those that ate boiled eggs from the small part and those who ate 'em from the larger part.

[Cronos]

What would be a better description og this area to describe the indigenous peoples, one easily recognised?

I really don't know. I'd call everyone from the portion from Arabia and Iraq and Syria and Armenia as Near-Easterners. I'd call all those around the Mediterranean as Mediterranean, whether they're from France, Italy or Morocco ro Turky or Israel.

[gobucks]

Your presumption is really the issue at hand - is the violence in question in actuality the offspring of 'over-zealous' beliefs? Do people kill really b/c they're obeying directives from a book?

There is a book I've read called the Disciples of Destruction which basically argues where you are coming from. It's not a mainstream book by any means. Much of the book is barely readable, to me, for the premise is based on the idea that religious activity of any kind is just irrational. I used to believe that too, until Christ came knocking ... now, fulfilling the spiritual drive in humans is more rational to me than filling the food and sex drives. I "get" it now.

Anyway, although the author makes lots of mistakes, I can see where he's coming from. The author equally tars the islamic, christian, jewish, talmudists, communists, marxists folks in a single group of nut cases who kill out of religious zeal. What the author doesn't acknowledge is that he is a typical man of faith himself - of the scientist/materialist variety. And he is morally above them all, b/c he doesn't experience, he thinks, the sensation of 'zeal'. (But, those PhD pseudo-Priests certainly do advocate killing - I've heard them do so ... but in their own special, subtle way - that's another story though.)

There's just one problem with his argument: killing during wars, though evil w/ fantastic abuse, has a self-evident result in the way of life we have today. Without war, the USA is a figment of imagination. Without our warriors, we are, put simply, not.

I'm no fan of war. But I would be stupid to ignore the reality that my way of life here ultimately was bought, purchased, sacrificed for, whatever you want to call it. The military cemeteries here and abroad filled w/ U.S. dead testify to the reality.

That all said, I have tested for myself the root cause of evil .... it took a long while, but the single word that serves adequately is "pride". I basically disagree w/ you that over-zealousness is the root of evil.

True, many have used the energy of zeal in an evil manner. But it was their pride in their own judgment that led to that energy's misapplication. Many zealous preachers do wondrous good in our world ... and nary an encouraging word about violence comes from them.

Evil's very essence is pride ... for from it, faiths of all stripes are born; and they all have in common one thing at root; faith in man's abilities. Then, killing in the name of man is not really killing .... it's relabeled as 'justified necessity'.

I suppose the above rambles a bit. Sorry. :)

[stuartcr]

Skin colour, ethnicity, physical characteristics, etc., are all tangible, easily proven traits...religious beliefs are not...that is what we are talking about...these are not the same thing. Why do people fight for these beliefs that cannot be proven? I understand fighting for food, land, women, tangible things...why ideas?

[stuartcr]

OK, thanks.

[stuartcr]

Thanks for the input, I may try to find this book.

[dennisw]

Yosaarian (from Catch 22) was Assyrian!.......

That's an Armenian name.

[dennisw]

The DVD Journal: Catch-22
... In essence, the story is about Yossarian (Alan Arkin), an Armenian-American bombardier
stationed on the Mediterranean island of Pianosa during World War II. ...
www.dvdjournal.com/reviews/c/catch22.shtml - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Session on May 7, 2001
... going. Yossarian: He is said to be Assyrian, but his name is Armenian,
as can be recognized by the –ian his name ends in. His ...
angam.ang.univie.ac.at/sess2001/pr6Kraml2.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

[Valin]

Why do people fight for these beliefs that cannot be proven? I understand fighting for food, land, women, tangible things...why ideas?

A couple of thoughts
It's ideas that are really important it's one of the things that separates us from animals.
The kind of extremeist that think it's ok to kill for an idea exist in all cultures(granted Islam seems to have more than their share of these today)
I would hope you are not saying that all ideas are equal? Remember the KKK(as an example) fight for an idea, and and so did Gen. Washington.

[stuartcr]

It would seem then, that the animals are the more civilised, as they fight/kill only for survival, not because they believe their God told them to. Maybe that's our punishment for original sin.....being human

[SunkenCiv]

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