Immigration: A Better Way

Tech Central Station ^ | 12/01/2003 | Arnold Kling

[Jim Robinson]

I'd rather not have it linked from anywhere on FR.
Jim

[traditionalist]

Aparently, David Horowitz and Frontpagemag.com "tolerate" those evil "racists" at American Renaisance. Are you going to call Horowitz a bigot too? Are you going to tell Jim Robinson to ban articles from Frontpage?

http://www.amren.com/horowitz.htm

FYI, I don't agree with the American Renaisance that whites should start engaging in ethnic identity politics like blacks and latinos do. Like Horowitz, I believe we can fight and defeat multiculturalism. However, I do find that AR people have interesting things to say, and I do not see why the fact that I disagree with them should stop me from linking to a site that links to them. Or from linking to a site that occasionally runs articles by one of their authors.

[4Freedom]

bigotry: intolerance toward people who hold different views, especially on matters of politics, religion, or ethnicity and unwilling to accept different views.

You're even worse than that. You refuse to accept facts, not just different views.

Another poor attempt at changing the subject, Chutch.

You falsely accused me of bigotry in respect to my past factual statements in regards to Puerto Rico.

Puerto Rico has been taking the U.S. Taxpayers to the cleaners for decades.

This year the U.S. Taxpayers will gift the ingrates in Puerto Rico almost $20 billion dollars in cash and services for not a single, solitary thing of equal value in return.

This year we even gifted them the largest naval base in the world. Over 8,600 acres of land and infrastructure worth BILLIONS off dollars on top of that. Including an airport with a 2-mile-long runway, hotel, hospital, jails, world-class port with 9 piers, water filtration and power generation plants, over 1000 buildings, golf course, miles of roads and beaches, communications, electrical and plumbing infrastructure all built at the U.S. Taxpayers expense.

We just gave it all away for free.

This was an absolute crime perpetrated against the U.S. Taxpayers and all you can do is call the person reporting the crime a "bigot".

You're intellectually dishonest and dishonorable.

Race-baiting is all you're about, Chutch.

[hchutch]

I can think of several examples in sports which would disprove Mr. Francis. Players whose effort more than made up for a lack of talent. Tom Waddle, a wide receiver with the Chicago Bears from 1989-1994, lacked speed, which many considered ESSENTIAL for a wideout in the NFL. Yet from 1991-1994, he ended up being arguably the most reliable wide receiver the Bears had in those years. That came through pure effort.

Take someone with a good work ethic from anywhere on this globe, be he/she Mexican, Chinese, African, Arab, or European, and they and/or their children will do just fine here in the United States - no matter what their genetic makeup is.

Genetics do not define destiny. They have less influence in it than the effort and character of an individual.

[traditionalist]

In other words, he's saying DNA equals destiny.

Where does he say it? I don't see it written anywhere. Are you illiterate, or am I?

All he says is that DNA AFFECTS destiny. Are you unable to grasp the difference between equalling and affecting?

For the fifth time, please tell me exactly where Mr. Francis' statement is wrong. Otherwise, cease your slanderous attacks.

[traditionalist]

Genetics do not define destiny. They have less influence in it than the effort and character of an individual.

Yes, and the sun orbits the Earth.

[hchutch]

Slander? That requires the statement to be false.

I'm not going to stop calling a bigot by his proper name. I have outlined WHY I consider him to be a bigot. The company he keeps can lead any reasonable person to conclude he is a bigot.

I agree with David Frum that it is "time to be frank" about folks like Mr. Francis. As I said earlier, if the truth about Mr. Francis and VDARE is that painful, take some Aleve.

[cyborg]

You caught people saying that somehow people are inferior based on genetics. Saying that I suppose gives some stupid white people some self esteem.

[hchutch]

And you have yet to convince me that you are about anything more than bigotry and accusations of race-baiting.

[traditionalist]

Slander? That requires the statement to be false.

Yes, and your statement that he's a bigot is false. You have yet to provide one piece of evidence to support your accusation.

[traditionalist]

Compared to the racist crap I can get from VDARE and Sam Francis, Mr. Kling makes much more sense.

What do Vdare and Sam Francis have to do with the discussion we were having? Why do you keep changing the subject?

[4Freedom]

Have you ever taken a course in Genetics, or do you just play a Geneticist here on FR? :^)

[Sabertooth]

I have two issues on which I feel strongly. One is that this country must continue to be a haven for the oppressed. The other is that we should not rely on unenforceable laws.

My ancestors were driven from Europe by ethnic violence. Today, there is ethnic violence in Africa and elsewhere. If victims in those countries can escape, and they choose to come to America to make a new life, then I feel that they should have such an opportunity.

< -snip- >

My other big issue is to get rid of what I have called legamorons, meaning any law that could not stand up under widespread enforcement. As it stands, our immigration laws are not going to be enforced. Keeping them on the books is hypocritical and only serves to keep us in a state of denial and evasion over the fact that we need to re-think immigration policy.

Guest Workers

The immigrants that I want in this country are people who would be tortured or killed if they remained in their native lands. Simply wanting to improve your economic opportunities does not entitle you to become a U.S. citizen, in my way of thinking.

However, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to improve their economic lot in life. I think that we can accommodate guest workers on a win-win basis.

What I propose is that we have a guest worker program with the following characteristics.

1) Anyone who is not a terror suspect or criminal is eligible.

Our laws are unenforceable only to the degrees of cowardice posessed by politicians on both sides of the aisle, which constrain them from fulfilling their oaths of office.

Then those very cowards recommend endless volleys of their trifling malfeasances to solve the problems created by their own lacks of courage.

What Arnold Kling and anyone who agrees with him are advocating are all-but-open borders, and the dissolution of American sovereignty.

In return, they hope to parlay their lack of ethical fortitude into a brief command of a ship of state sinking by their own cannon shot.

[traditionalist]

Tom Waddle was an outlier. Sure, you will find exceptions in which someone without much talent excels. But these cases are extremely rare. 99.9% of the time, you need talent to excel. I'm sorry if you're in denial about this fact.

Take someone with a good work ethic from anywhere on this globe, be he/she Mexican, Chinese, African, Arab, or European, and they and/or their children will do just fine here in the United States - no matter what their genetic makeup is.

Which is why, of course, IQ is the best predictor of future income than any other variable.

If you have an IQ under 100, I don't care how hard you work. You're just not going to become a brilliant scientist. Of course, there people with IQ's over 150 who don't amount to anything. That just means IQ is a necessary but not sufficient condition for intellectual success.

[hchutch]

So now you go from genetics to IQ?

[Sabertooth]

The only people who would not tolerate requiring passports for employment are libertarian nutjobs who make up 0.001% of the population.

Count me among them, I guess.

I'm of the opinion that it's perfectly possible to get Illegals to deport themselves without imposing burdens on law-abiding Americans.

If that makes me a libertarian nut-job, so be it. I want to inconvenience Illegals, not citizens and legal residents.

[traditionalist]

So now you go from genetics to IQ?

Uh, yeah. It is a scientific fact that genetics, IN PART, determine IQ. There are obviously many other factors, but genetics is one of them.

Don't blame me. You started down this road, not me.

[traditionalist]

I'm of the opinion that it's perfectly possible to get Illegals to deport themselves without imposing burdens on law-abiding Americans.

I agree.

If that makes me a libertarian nut-job, so be it. I want to inconvenience Illegals, not citizens and legal residents.

Getting a passport is hardly an inconvenience.

[Poohbah]

All he says is that DNA AFFECTS destiny. Are you unable to grasp the difference between equalling and affecting?

Are you unable to grasp the fact that he said WITHOUT the genetic heritage--as in, ANY difference in genetic heritage would have prevented western civilization from coming about?

I.e., DNA = destiny.

[steve-b]

Most "free" countries require passports as a standard form of ID.

Bill Clinton called. He wants you to return his dictionary.