Blazes renew policy battle

Sac Bee ^ | 11/2/03 | Stuart Leavenworth and Deb Kollars

[NormsRevenge]

SAN BERNARDINO -- The images are nearly as searing as the flames: Neighborhoods obliterated. An area larger than Sacramento County left charred and scarred. A former fireman who helped save his family's home. A fireman who gave his life for others.

[NormsRevenge]

California wildfires: The impact

Across the state, 20 people have died, 3,373 homes were destroyed and 745,829 acres burned.

Cedar fire (San Diego County)

Size: 281,666 acres

Homes destroyed: 2,232

Deaths: 14

Containment: 90 percent

Cause: Authorities say a lost hunter set a signal fire.

Estimated cost: $9.83 million.

Paradise fire (San Diego County)

Size: 56,700 acres

Homes destroyed: 169

Deaths: 2

Containment: 60 percent

Cause: Under investigation

Estimated cost: $4.3 million

Grand Prix fire (San Bernardino County)

Size: 59,448 acres

Homes destroyed: 61

Deaths: None

Containment: 95 percent

Cause: Under investigation

Estimated cost: $19.3 million

Old fire (San Bernardino County)

Size: 91,281 acres.

Homes destroyed: 851

Deaths: 4

Containment: 65 percent

Cause: Arson

Estimated cost: $12 million

Piru fire (Ventura County)

Size: 63,991 acres

Homes destroyed: 1

Deaths: None

Containment: 80 percent

Cause: Under investigation

Estimated cost: $6.33 million

Contained fires

Simi Valley fire (Ventura, Los Angeles counties)

Size: 108,304 acres

37 homes destroyed; no deaths; burned Oct. 25-Nov. 1

Mountain fire (Riverside County) Size: 9,742 acres

21 homes destroyed; no deaths; burned Oct. 26-29

Otay (Dulzura) fire (San Diego County)

Size: 46,291 acres

One home destroyed; no deaths; burned Oct. 26-28

Padua fire (Los Angeles County)

Size: 10,466 acres

No homes destroyed; no deaths; burned Oct. 26-31

Camp Pendleton fire (San Diego County)

Size: 9,000 acres

No homes destroyed; no deaths; burned Oct. 21-27

Verdale fire (Los Angeles County) Size: 8,680 acres

No homes destroyed; no deaths; burned Oct. 24-27

Wellman fire (Riverside County) Size: 100 acres

No homes destroyed; no deaths; burned Oct. 26-27

Happy fire (Santa Barbara County) Size: 160 acres

No homes destroyed; no deaths; burned Oct. 24-27

Source: U.S. Forest Service, California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection; fire and law enforcement officials via the Associated Press

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The wildfires' devastation in the Scripps Ranch neighborhood of northern San Diego County is virtually complete.

[NormsRevenge]

The following links to FR threads are also available for viewing. Thanks to lainie and First_Salute and all the rest of the FR crew who work so diligently to inform the public while the mainstream media seems to meander around and miss so many stories and news about current events and why we are in the situations we all too often find ourselves in as a people and society..

Links to Free Republic pages on the Southern California Wildfires, (and arson) Sept. - Oct. - Nov. 2003

September 19, 2003 - Friday

ELF suspected in two more fires in San Diego this morning (posted by Tree of Liberty)

October 21, 2003 - Tuesday

Fires Breakout all over Southern Cal (posted by al baby)

October 25, 2003 - Saturday

Fires in SoCal are destroying homes! (650 homes) (posted by Stars N Stripes)

October 26, 2003 - Sunday

Southern CA fires - Live Thread 10/26 (4 separate major fires, incl. 1 new arson fire) (posted by mhking)

San Diego County fires - Live Thread 10/26 (posted by socal_parrot)

Crisis on our National Forests: Reducing the Threat of Catastrophic Wildfire [San Bernardino Fires] (posted by Carry_Okie)

Wildfires merge in Southern California; 14 dead, 650 homes lost (posted by Brian S)

October 27, 2003 - Monday

Southern CA fires - Live Thread 10/27 (posted by spectr17)

13 dead in California Wlidfires, 850 homes burned (posted by GeronL)

October 28, 2003 - Tuesday

SoCal Fires Live Thread 10/28 (posted by spectr17)

October 29, 2003 - Wednesday

Southern California Fires -- Live Thread 10/29 (posted by lainie)

3.7 Earthquake under California Fires... (posted by ALOHA RONNIE)

October 30, 2003 - Thursday

Southern California Fires -- Live Thread 10/30 (posted by lainie)

October 31, 2003 - Friday

Southern California Fires ... 10/31 (posted by lainie)

November 1, 2003 - Saturday

Southern California Fires Live Thread -- 11/1/2003 (posted by lainie)

November 2, 2003 - Sunday

Southern California Fires Live Thread -- 11/2/2003, Sunday

re: California Fires -- LISTEN TO DR. BILL WATTENBURG TONIGHT ON KGO (10:00 PM PACIFIC) (posted by doug from upland)

[NormsRevenge]

"We're punching urban development straight into natural wilderness," Fulton said.

The problem, say some land managers, is this wilderness is far from being natural. Federal and state agencies, with their Smokey Bear slogans, snuffed out every fire over the years, allowing brush and trees to proliferate. Some foresters tried to reduce the threat with thinning projects and wet-season controlled burns, but homeowners objected to the sound of chain saws and the smell of smoke in the air.

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What can one say?

[NormsRevenge]

Following every disaster in California, a familiar pattern repeats itself. The national media pick up on the story. Politicians react. The federal government pours millions of relief dollars into the state, and homeowners rebuild -- sometimes turning cabins into larger houses, increasing the potential loss.

[First_Salute]

Bump.

[Carry_Okie]

The article is shilling for Sustainable Development.

[Not now, Not ever!]

Bump, Bttt, as a bookmark

[blanknoone]

the homowners objected

Yeah, it was the homeowners, not the environmentalists and their media cohorts that are to blame!

[daviddennis]

The real question in my mind is whether living in a gorgeous natural setting and having a better life every day is worth the once in a decade risk of having your house burn down.

In all honesty, I would say it probably is, because you're living among beauty instead of a boring, humdrum "normal" place.

Whoever told him those areas are cheap, though, must have been smoking something rather strange. The cheapest listing in Topanga Canyon right now - a one bedroom, one bath house - is listed at $469,000.

If you tossed a match out of your car driving down Topanga's main drag, you'd probably burn the whole place down.

Somehow the risk of fire doesn't seem to affect market value. At all.

I would still much rather live in Topanga Canyon than any other place in LA save Malibu -- and it's comparable to Topanga in fire risk.

D

[Carry_Okie]

Beauty is indeed an economic asset, offest by the liability of risk to capital. Pay for the latter in your insurance and care for the former and both are optimized. Without discriminatory pricing by behavior and individual choice and the market cannot resolve relative risk and the owner is not motivated to manage the risk.

Blame the insurers who, rather than hire the expertise to assess individual risk, just pool everybody because they can get away with it. That is a result of the lack of competition resulting from State regulation that acts to protect the insurers from making stupid decisions themselves.

Remember how they jacked everybody's fire insurance after losing out in the Northridge earthquake?

[marsh2]

Land use is a mixed bag. Our valleys are protected with zoning for prime ag. That means that building is happening in the woods around the rim. That is better for flood issues, but not for fire.

For new construction, CDF has minimum standards it imposes on roads and water availability. Most folk have to have a hydrant system, pond or a several thousand gallon water tank. That is state law.

Insurers are getting in the act by refusing to insure if a structure is so many yards from a hydrant, or they are conducting on-site fire safe inspections to look at the place and the neighborhood. My carrier just escalated its rates astronomically.

This politician has not been sitting on her hands when it comes to fire. I have become actively involved in fuel reduction projects in the ranger districts within my district . I sit on the federal provincial PAC, the countywide fire safe council and attend Fire Chiefs and county fire meetings. I have been out on seven field trips in just this past year to the forest with various federal, private timber and citizen escorts.

I am also active in the formation and promotion of local fire safe councils. We have several in my district that are working with the USFS on coordinated fuel reduction and shaded fuel break projects around their communities. They have chippers and saws and are out on the ground removing brush. (Kudos, by the way, to our local USFWS in facilitating projects and finding doable ways to minimize impacts on species of concern.)

Our countywide fire safe council is working on a pre-fire strategy plan similar to that done in Marin County: http://www.marincountyfire.org/prefire.htm They will assess risk, adopt emergency plans, adopt fuel reduction strategies and have it all keyed to GIS for use. http://www.firesafecouncil.org/

Our forests are in terrible condition. It is a major threat to the area. It will take a ton of work. The exemptions and the newly passed Healthy Forest Initiative will allow us to move forward on the national forest and do what needs to be done to create safer conditions without being bogged down in environmental analysis paralysis and obstructive lawsuits.

This year we were able to get some acreage of brush on USFS hills next to the county seat masticated. We are now doing some thining and underburning on USFS lands around Happy Camp. We are making slow progress.

We need money to help fund fire safe projects. Last year we had grants that had been awarded that were rescinded and applied to firefighting costs and use in southern CA. We have volunteers, CCC and unemployed folks ready to work on this. All the planning is being done, we just need funding. It would be really nice if the insurance companies underwrote this effort. They don't even get involved up here.