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To: dalight
This fact was conveniently left out of the Torah itself

Along with the rules for writing a kosher Torah Scroll (without which the Torah would not exist), and how to perform "wave" and "heave" offerings, and how to perform shechitah, and the voluminous rules pertaining to the Jewish calendar (which Torah assumes), etc.

In other words, if you separate the Written Torah from the Oral Torah, you've left the ball park.

126 posted on 10/06/2013 4:59:42 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
In other words, if you separate the Written Torah from the Oral Torah, you've left the ball park.

There have been folks questioning the veracity of the Oral Torah since the time of Hillel and Shammai. The Karaites attempted to live without implementing instructions that Oral Torah provides and this is a bit of a blind alley.

Mixed into Oral Torah is a mishmash of all sorts of data of excellent to extremely dubious quality.

However, the other guidance of Oral Torah is that it is not supposed to be written. Ooops. The concept with this is that it must change with the time to assist Jews to accomplish the keeping of the Commandments in their own time and in the context of their own lives. As the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmud are fixed in the pre-dark ages.. its not a huge surprise that some bits now are pretty badly misfitting our understanding of our current "reality."

However, a dispassionate review of these materials also yields that the vast majority of this material is amazing, and shockingly relevant. The Reform movement pretty much have rejected the Talmud then reconnected in a "pick and choose" sort of stance, but unfortunately the "Progressive" or "Pragmatic" stance requires a "objectively identifiable and incontrovertibly acceptable" end point goal or standard. The movement right now is like a ship without a destination so shock.. the Socialists moved in with their "Socialist Utopia" as a substitute for the Messianic promise that provided a sense of direction for Jews since the Tannaim.

Shockingly, I reject the Messianic idol as this confuses the mind just the same as any other idol. However, the most important debate I ever joined in was with a Chassidic Rabbi who is the head of our local Yeshiva on this very topic. Deut. 17:15 vs. Samuel 8:7-8. I was attempting to accept the Rabbi's position as a true position and then trying to find how it could be a true position because I also deeply accept that the same author's hand is on both of these texts.. how could this inconsistency be resolved? The answer is that the Messianic hope provides the same sort of unifying power that a King provides as a leader allowing people to rise above their own petty problems and work toward a common and righteous future. However, a deeper understanding requires us to ultimately reject kings because as Jews there is only God and God is quite sufficient.

These two seem in conflict but instead, these are different levels of experience. Temporal leaders are a blessing, we look to leaders to help us coordinate our efforts and these leaders must be worthy of our affection and acceptance. But, as humans, any leader will be flawed. The hope of an "ultimate" leader who is flawless is helpful to those who cannot deal with the "nothing" nature of God.

I believe Reform Judaism is a necessary step to allow Jews to bridge the gap from the Messianic expectation to being able to directly focus on Loving God. Unfortunately, unmooring from this central goal to connect as a greater community, not just selected scholars, to an "adult" relationship (not that kind) with God is not easy and it seems like lots of wondering around in the darkness is part of the deal.

132 posted on 10/08/2013 5:12:28 AM PDT by dalight
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