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To: dalight
I appreciate your good intentions, but I'm afraid you don't understand.

The Torah doesn't come from clay tablets, nor does it have multiple sources of any kind. According to Tradition the Torah was written entirely by G-d, 974 generations before the Creation. It actually preceded the universe and is in fact its "blueprint," its "DNA." In fact, one tradition insists that the universe was literally made from the letters of the 'Alef-Beit.

In the 26th generation of Creation, the Torah was given to Israel; HaShem dictated it letter-by-letter, and Moses wrote it down (there is an opinion that the narrative of Moses' death was written by Joshua, but Moses could in fact have taken down the dictation of his own death just as he took down the rest of the Torah). Even the medieval "arch-rationalist" Maimonides insisted in his Thirteen Principals of Faith that the entire Torah which Israel possesses was given to Moses. And some six hundred years later, another "arch-rationalist" (Vilna Ga'on) insisted that the Torah contains every fact about everything that has ever existed, whether human, animal, plant or mineral, and that it does so down to the smallest detail.

Moses wrote the first Torah Scrolls at HaShem's dictation and they have been faithfully copied since that time by scribes who follow the most rigorous rules, including one that commands them to have a complete kosher Torah Scroll before them as they transcribe. So there are no "sources" or "clay tablets." It all comes from G-d directly and unmediated.

The purest form of the Word of G-d is the Halakhically written kosher Torah Scrolls kept in the 'aronot of synagogues throughout the world and throughout history, not the texts that chrstian and atheist scholars use.

118 posted on 10/05/2013 8:47:09 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
The Torah doesn't come from clay tablets, nor does it have multiple sources of any kind. According to Tradition the Torah was written entirely by G-d, 974 generations before the Creation.

This fact was conveniently left out of the Torah itself and this is an external teaching. (As you say Tradition) But, ultimately, such reckonings are meaningless and frankly destructive aim to opening the minds of the current swarms of humanity.

Maimonides and my Great Great Great... G'father aside.. I would argue, be careful not to worship Torah for this is also a form of idolatry. And, as they say, you are welcome to your own and many agreeing opinions, but even an overwhelming consensus doesn't make non-sense into a fact. Ask the Global Warming crowd.

Fortunately for Torah, the document bears the level of distortion you wish to apply to it and rewards those who use this to assist them in accepting it. So, good for you. If this satisfies you, good enough.

But, for me, I know the crisis we are navigating is entirely created because this explanation was blown up as misleading, manipulative and indistinguishable from any other explanation made up out of whole cloth.

We both know though, that often, parables and explanations that bright minds share with those trying to learn are indeed blessings. So, there is no fault that attaches necessarily in such teachings, except when they are false on their face to the person hearing them. Then such explanations destroy the credibility of the teacher and thus the value of the lesson.

Nevertheless, the real problem is that this line of teaching has been tried and lost 70-80% of the worlds Jews to every manner of distraction. You can argue that perhaps these folks are best completely lost. I would argue this is a distinct possibility but not what Abraham would have probably wanted if you could ask him today.

I would argue that God is perfect and Torah is a blessing, because the hands of man are too obvious on the pages of Torah. Nevertheless, I also argue that God shapes and fashions this world and all that is in it with the hands of man, as well as, older ways. So a deeper thinker would say, every letter of the Torah was created by God and this would not at all be an untruth.

119 posted on 10/05/2013 9:19:38 PM PDT by dalight
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Torah was written entirely by G-d, 974 generations before the Creation.

I find myself insanely wanting to take another bite out of this.

You can make this argument, and it is actually great teaching.

The horrible teachings are the ones that are being espoused by Scientism. (The worship of science) And its traveling companions, the most unsavory and nightmarish of these is Atheism. Atheists espouse to believe in nothing. And, nothing is the one unique thing that this entire universe will not permit; and further one could argue this is true beyond this and any multiverse and any imaginable unlimited context that be speculated by the mind of man.

Rather, Atheists are shrinking violets and timid against the challenge of accepting the true majesty of our existence and our relationship to all else that isn't our own mind. I argue that the reason we as Jews eschew idolatry is that it blinds the eyes from coming to terms with God as "Not a thing." God is outside of our ability to sense, measure, or perceive with our physical senses. Yet, we can perceive God at every moment through our connection to him via our soul, which is also "not a thing" but rather a connection that is of God's level of existence and thus outside of our ability to comprehend anymore than a "flat-lander" can comprehend a cube. Kabbalistic study and teaching tries to scratch at this insight, but as you dig deeper, we find that this "nothing nature" is Gods most important aspect.

We are commanded to LOVE God, not because God is an affection junkie, but rather because this is a huge honking arrow on how to actually connect with God. How to realize Gods blessings and how to reflect these blessings on each life no matter how great or small that we touch. This occurs because of our very inability to focus on God as an image, concept, being, or anything of substance or location.

Rather, this love is real, and as such manifest in our current moment and reality and it has no outlet or direction except for the focus of attention of the individual who gives his heart and soul and very life to God. So instead, that love is focused on God's creation and the lives and misery of those around us. And, we are called to act. Torah has been given to us to help us choose to act in ways that assure that the consequences of our actions will not just create new evil.

120 posted on 10/05/2013 10:12:26 PM PDT by dalight
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