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To: Servant of the Nine
Nevertheless, I liked the way he focused on the 'bone-islands' of Northern Siberia. That was the one compelling data-point in Velikovsky's 'Worlds in Collision'.

Something sure as H*ll happened all of a sudden!
10 posted on 07/25/2003 7:59:53 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: headsonpikes
Velikovsky started one of his books with a tour of the carcass fields of Fairbanks, Alaska. I happen to live in Fairbanks, and if Siberia is anything like this, they, too, are walking on wooly mammoth bones and saber-tooth tiger hides everywhere they set foot. The valleys are filled with frozen muck 100 feet thick, and the muck is filled with mostly clay-like frozen dust and these carcasses. We call it muck, but when it dries it is just dust. It's not solid with carcasses, you see, but there plenty of them. When they cleared the muck overburden with steam and water points and water giants, tons of these carcasses came to light. The top levels of the muck are layed down in thin layers, probably as annual deposits of wind-blown loess, but I don't know that when you go deeper there are any layers at all but it all came in at once like in a huge storm. Something happened, but we just build our cabins on top and live happily ignorant of prehistoric events.
65 posted on 07/26/2003 2:37:50 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: headsonpikes
Velikovsky wrote a whole book on this subject in 1955 and doesn't get even one word of mention in this article. Read Earth in Upheaval (if you can find a copy- it took me 6 months to find a used copy). He covers everything in this article and more. From the article:

"Massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969).

From Velikovsky (Earth in Upheaval, p151):

" On the Atlantic coast of Florida, at Vero in the Indian River region, in 1915 and 1916, human remains were found in association with the bones of Ice Age (pleistocene) animals, many of which either became extinct, like the saber-toothed tiger, or have disappeared from the Americas, like the camel.

The find caused immediate excitement amoung geologists and anthropologists. Beside the human bones pottery was found, as well as bone implememnts and worked stone. Ales Hrdlicka, of the Smithsonian Institution of Washington, D.C., a renowned anthropologist (who generally opposed the view that man existed in America in the Ice Age), wrote that the "advanced state of culture, such as that shown by the pottery, bone implements, and worked stone brought from a considerable distance, implies a numerous population spread over large areas, acquainted thoroughly with fire, with cooking food, and with all the usual primitive arts"; the human remains and relics could not be of an intiquity "comparable with that of fossil remains with which they are associated." He also published the opinion of W.H. Holmes, head curator of the Department of Anthropology of the United States National Museum, who investigated the pottery obtained by Hrdlicka from Vero. These were bowls "such as were in common use amoung the Indian tribes of Florida." When compared with vessels from Florida earth mounds, "no significant distinction can be made; in material, thickness of walls, finish of rim, surface finish, color, state of preservation, and size and shape," the vessels "are identical." There thus appears " not the least ground in the evidence of the specimens themselves for the assumption that the Vero pottery pertains to any other people than the mound-building Indian tribes of Florida of the pre-Columbian time."

But the bones of the man and his artifacts (pottery) were found amoung the extinct animals. The discoverer of the Vero deposits, E.H. Sellards, state geologist of Florida and a very capable paleontologist, wrote in the debate that ensued: "That the human bones are fossils normal to this stratum and contemporaneous with the associated vertibrates is determined by their place in the formation, their manner of occurance, their intimate relation to the bones of other animals, and the degree of mineralization of the bones." This "degree of mineralization of the human bones is identical with that of the associated bones of the other animals." In his view the evidence obtained " affords proof that man reached America at an early date and was present on the continent in association with a Pleistocene (Ice Age) fauna." Anthropologists of the Hrdlicka school would not accept this, claiming a late arrival of man on the American continent, and the presence of pottery was in their view proof of a late date for the human bones. The human sculls, though fossilized, did not differ from the skulls of the Indians today.

In 1923-29, thirty-three miles north of Vero, in Melbourne, Florida, another such association of human remains and extinct animals was found, "a remarkably rich assemblage of animal bones, many of which represent species which became extinct at or after the close of the Pleistocene (Ice Age) epoch." The discoverer, J.W. Gidley, of the United States National Museum, established unequivocally that in Melbourne - as in Vero- the human bones were of the same stratum and in the same state of fossilization as the bones of the extinct animals. And again human artifacts were found with the bones. The "projectile points, awls, and pins" found with the human bones at Melbourne as well as at Vero are of the same workmanship as those unearthed in early Indian sites, two thousand of which are known in the area.

All these and other considerations of an anthropological as well as geological nature, being summed up, prove in the opinion of I. Rouse, a recent analyst of the much-debated fossils of Florida, that "the Vero and Melbourne man should have been in existance between 2000 B.C. and the year zero A.D." This does not solve the problem of the association of extinct animals and man who lived between two and four thousand years ago, in the second and first millennia before the present era.

There is no proper way out of this dillemma, other than the assumption that now extinct animals still existed in historical times and that the catastrophe which overwhelmed man and animals and annihilated numerous species occured in the second or first millennium before the present era.

The geologists are right: the human remains and artifacts of Vero and Melbourne in Florida are of the same age as the fossils of the extinct animals.

The anthropologists are equally right: the human remains and artifacts are of the second or first millennium before the present era.

What follows? It follows that the extinct animals belonged to the recent past. It follows also that some paroxysm of nature heaped together these assemblages; the same paroxysm of nature may have destroyed numerous species so that they became extinct. "

103 posted on 07/27/2003 8:30:43 AM PDT by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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