"WHY DID HE SHOOT ME" --maimed Eagle Scout

BALTIMORE SUN ^ | March 3, 2002 | Kimberly A. C. Wilson

[one2many]

An Eagle Scout who was mistaken for a bank robber and shot in the face by an FBI agent in Pasadena on Friday remained in serious but stable condition at Maryland Shock Trauma Center last night.

Joseph Charles Schultz, 20, was shot at close range about 6 p.m. Friday when FBI agents searching for a bank robbery suspect pulled over his girlfriend's car.

Schultz, who lives in the 7900 block of Seabreeze Drive in Orchard Beach in Anne Arundel County and works with fiber optics for a local medical company, has no connection to the bank robbery, officials said.

[yarddog]

Sorry, but in this case it does.

[VA Advogado]

I once had some dealings with an FBI agent. Can't tell the story because of privacy act but he was a real piece of work.

Whose privacy rights are being protected here? If you were the principle, you have every right to reveal your interactions.

[GreyWolf]

It's possible that last month the ages were a 19 y.o. dating a 16 y.o.. That wouldn't sound as bad, but still a spread of 3 years at those ages is a much bigger deal than 27 and 30.

In the Socialist State Of Maryland our 60 year old divorced Governor just knocked up and (later) married a 35 year old associate, so age differential is no big deal here.

[aShepard]

Wow! That must have been a real project. I tip my hat to you!

[sport]

D., all the decent agents have either retired or quit.
At this time, all you have are affirmative action incompetents and, as the evidence has shown, sadists.

I understand that there are those on this very forum that will defend their actions no matter what they do.

They do this for any number of reasons, chiefly because they honestly believe that they are their friends. Just as the others down through history who have defended doers of evil have learned to their sorrow,they are going to learn that the individuals thay have been rabidly defending, have no friends. They only have different people that they use for different purposes. When it serves their purpose, they will turn and jump on them with both feet.

A good example of this is going on in Congress with the Enron [to use the term very loosely] investigation, the very Congressmen and women that Enron though that they had brought are now attacking them tooth and toenail.

[sport]

D. he may be more concerned about his health than his privacy.
These people have ways of making embarassments disappear.

[harpseal]

I do know some FBI agents who I would trust implicitly. Their life is their sense of personal honor and they live that code of honor to a tee. That said I have a real problem with the FBI being run like a typical government agency where CYA is the only rule that counts. I note that I know an FBI agent who is more critical of this incident than I am.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[harpseal]

I'm sure Attorney General Ashcroft will prosecute this rogue FBI agent.

Please flag me when this happens as I will bet on Hell's Hockey Team to have the home ice advantage in the Stanley Cup.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[Triple]

Was teacher317' posted opinion more or less reckless than the FBI agent that shot the innocent kid in the face?

(psst - tuck in your shirt, your bias is showing)

[Gargantua]

Some of the finest people I have ever known are State and Local Policemen. But, the very worst, most sadistic, hardened criminals I've ever met are also State and Local Policemen.

And, given the "Misprision of Felony" statute, any Cop who knows of a crime committed by another Cop, and who does not report it and hound it for prosecution as they would any other form of criminal rape, is himself guilty of Felony Conspiracy, Aiding and Abetting, and providing refuge to a criminal in that same act.

So, what percentage are criminals? Try "Serpico" (by Frank Serpico) and "The Choirboys" (by Joseph Wambaugh) for starters.

Just for starters.

[Teacher317]

For review purposes, let's go over the list of crimes, mistakes, poor condict, and hubris in this small event. I know I'm being "reckless" in doing so, but I still think it's important.

• The FBI "postively identifies" a passenger in a moving vehicle from a moving vehicle. (They are so sure of this that they approach the vehicle with assault weapons drawn.) They were wrong. A simple mistake that can happen at any time to anyone. No problems... until they drew their guns.
• The yet-to-be-identified agent has his finger ON THE TRIGGER before he is ready to shoot. (Unless they want to admit that they were approaching with the intent to fire.)
• The yet-to-be-identified agent points his weapon at something he does not intend to shoot. (again, giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm TRYING to be kind, here!)
• The agent could not have seen a weapon, but fires his own anyway. Most local police are better trained than this. A competent LEO recognizes the possibility of seat belts or other innocent items that a citizen might be reaching for. If accompanied by other officers, as the FBI agent was, they yell "gun!" first, then draw, then decide whether to shoot first, or wait for a moment. (This is from an officer, not my exerience with the show "Cops")
• Upon the discharge of the assault weapon at point blank range into the face of an unarmed anderage citizen, they refuse him medical attention for 40-60 minutes. In case _Jim and his friends are unaware, this is a 'bad thing'. A 10-second search would have verified that safety and security of the medical personnel, LEO's, and public were not at stake, and could clear the medics.
• The FBI. upon discovering that the unarmed citizen they have 'identified', shot without provocation, and refused medical attention is NOT ACTUALLY the robbery suspect, then allow the medics through. This indicates that they intentionally refuse medical care to suspects... but thankfully not innocent civilians. Again, this is a 'bad thing'.
• The FBI refuses to disclose any information, even though it is obvious that this will not interfere with the robbery investigation. They apparently feel that the public isn't worthy of knowing what they have done until they can put a positive spin on it, cover up any possible evidence, and prevent any 'unfortunate' testimony. (The episodes where they repeatedly changed their story were actually noticed! Shocking!)
• This hasn't happened YET, of course, but it's an easy prediction to make: The yet-to-be-named agent will be reprimanded in a news conference, temporarily reassigned, and will suffer no further consequences. This is standard FBI procedure, if not policy. It is also the standard that virtually every federal agency (as well as Congress) clings to desperately.

Those who are properly trained in the use of firearms do not rest their finger on the trigger, nor do they allow the barrel to point in any direction that might be unsafe. Those who refuse treatment suspects (and some reports mention gloating about it) deserve to lose their job entirely.

The three major points here:
1. The laws of the land should apply to all citizens equally. If any of us had mishandled a firearm during a gunshow or at home (or any acceptable reason to have a weapon drawn, just like when a pursued perp has shown a weapon)... and someone got shot in the face... then we would be in jail, facing fines, and would certainly be fired if handling of the firearm was a part of our job (like a salesman or instructor).

2. The FBI needs to stop covering their agents' crimes. They serve the public. The FBI should be open and honest when mistakes happen, and should demote, prosecute and fire agents when merited.

3. The FBI needs to ensure that those who need medical attention get it as soon as possible, whether they are suspects or not. The teacher at Columbine died and the kid in this story could have died because they are not willing to perform the same tasks that local officers and firemen do every single day: go into an area to try to save a life, even if an element of risk exists. (I'll refrain from using the WTC as the basis of comparison, again to be as accomodating as possible in my arguments.)

Rather than serve the public with truth, honor, and self-improvement, the federal agencies (as well as Congress) prefer to lie, obfuscate, 'CYA', and show their disdain for the opinions and welfare of the public. The icing on the cake: the annual demand for more of our hard-earned dollars so they can 'do more'. Boys, we ain't gonna put up with it much longer.

[fod]

The libertarians are scum to do it about law enforcement.

Yes, dear mistakes do happen, but we must try to ensure they do not happen.

Avoiding mistakes is not done by stonewalling and lying and celebrating the shooting of innocents while denying medical treatment.

We avoid "mistakes" by holding those who make them accountable, not by denying they made one in the first place.

I see your anti-liberarian slip is showing, and we can see what you motivation in this incident is.

BTW, one does not need to "demonize" LEOs, they are taking care of that themselves.

[Teacher317]

shamefully promoting my post #234

[Teacher317]

Oops! Forgot one of the more outspoken ones!

MW, is my post #234 a fair assessment?

[Travis McGee]

It was quite a project! Two years to put it in the water, another year to go sailing.

[Travis McGee]

Very well written summary! I hope that all decent FBI agents are pushing to have this trigger happy FBI SWAT gestapo drummed out in disgrace, but I doubt many will.

[harpseal]

All good points. I would add that the joking and laughing with an injured inncocent civilian on the ground was one of the most stupid public relations displays possible and for thst alone the agents involved should be discharged. Maybe they can find work more appropriately suited to their talents.

Stay well - stay safe - stay armed - yorktown