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To: Texaggie79
There's a lot of precident for them videotaping a live man being decapitated. There are a number of links to articles on different victims carried here on FR.

Just slitting his throat is unlikely but not impossible. Early reports did mention decaptiation. Some other governments have shown such videos in the past.

I'm disgusted that the press is detailing all sorts of horrendous acts committed by Andrea Yates against her children (new details every day) and yet they are being tight lipped on this murder that was directed at America (and that foreign travelling Americans could be subjected to).

667 posted on 02/22/2002 11:36:14 AM PST by weegee
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To: weegee
You might want to visit kavkaz.org and read up - somewhere on their site is a comprehensive analysis of beheading in the islamic tradition. Something about your post here made me think you may be interested in it. I tried to find it to post the link but cannot get the site to come up today.

The part I had found was all about whether or not it was ok to put the head somewhere different than the body once you removed it. It was unreal. They spent a huge page on a detailed analysis, with lots of historical examples, about what was ok to do with the head and what was not. I'll keep trying to get it up and post it.

675 posted on 02/22/2002 1:20:01 PM PST by MarMema
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To: weegee,Texaggie79
From www.qoqaz.net, an islamic site -

The Permissibility of Moving/Transporting the Corpses/Remains of Unbelievers

There are two positions that have been reported in this regard. The first is that of the rightly guided caliph, Abu Bakr, may Allah Most High be well pleased with him. In his book "Assunan Al Kubra", Imam Bayhaki states: "Chapter on what has been reported about the moving of the heads of unbelievers: Amr Ibn El'aas and Sharhabeel Ibn Hassana dispatched Uqba to deliver the head of Yunak, the Patriarch of Damascus, to the caliph Abu Bakr. "

"When the head was delivered to the caliph, Abu Bakr showed his displeasure. Uqba responded to this by saying: " Oh Successor of the Prophet of Allah, peace be upon him, but they do the same with us! (decapitate Muslims). Abu Bakr rebuffed Uqba's argument by saying: 'Then should we take example in the methods of the Romans and the Persians? There is no need for you to bring me this head; informing me through correspondence will suffice.'"

Muawiyah Ibn Khadeej and Abd Al Kareem Al Jazari have also reported the position of Abu Bakr. Al Zahri has stated the position of Abu Bakr and has stated that no head was ever delivered to the Prophet, peace be upon him, in Medina.

The second, and more accurate, position confirms the permissibility of moving the remains of unbelievers. Ibn Jarir reported in his encyclopaedic work on history: "Men from Bani Makhzoom reported that Ibn Abbas said: " (on the battlefield of Badr) Abu Jahl (the wounded chieftain of the unbelievers) told me: ' You shepherd, you have risen to a lofty but difficult position.' I ripped his head off and took it to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and said: 'Oh Prophet of Allah, this is the head of enemy of Allah, Abu Jahl.' The Prophet, peace be upon him, was pleased and said: 'All praise be to Allah! there is no god other than Him."
This story has also been related by Imam Ibn Hajar, and reported by Ishaq and Al Hakam.

Imam Al Dahabi related the following story: "Ibn Zubair said: 'Jarjeer who led an army of 120,000 attacked us in the province of Nuba (Africa). We were only 20,000. At first, the men consulted with our commander, Ibn Abi Srah who went into his tent to make a decision. During this time, I glanced from afar the head of Jarjeer; he was behind his troops and was shaded by two concubines who protected him from the sun with the feathers of an ostrich. I (asked) our commander (to make an attempt) at Jarjeer. He accepted and I chose thirty cavalrymen to join me.' I told them to protect my back; I broke through enemy lines and appeared in front of Jarjeer. At first, Jarjeer and his entourage thought I was a messenger, but when he realized I was after him, Jarjeer attempted to run. I caught up with him, decapitated him and placed his head on top of my spear. I yelled 'Allah u Akbar!' and the Muslims attacked as the enemy collapsed and fled."

Yusuf Al Hanafi has reported that: "Abd Allah Al Daylami approached the Prophet, peace be upon him, with the head of Al Aswad Al Ansi the Liar. We brought the head from Yemen so that the Prophet would witness (a symbol of) the victory of the Muslims." Yusuf Al Hanafi comments on this by saying: " These examples confirm the permissibility of moving the heads of the unbelievers from country to country so that people may know the defeat that befalls (those who fight against Allah and His Prophet). " And Allah says: "And let a party of the believers witness their punishment." [Quran 24:2]

Al Hanafi continues: "Abu Bakr's displeasure (with being presented with the head of the unbelieving chieftain) was a result of his own judgement, at that time, that such a move was unnecessary. Battlefield commanders, such as Yazeed Ibn Abi Sufyan and Uqba Ibn Amer, did not bewrong this because they viewed it as giving glory to the Religion of Allah and humiliating to the infidels. Hence, the decision on such a matter is related to the judgements of the scholars who must decide if such a move is beneficial at that particular time. They must also decide against it if they feel it is unnecessary."

Imam Shawkani says in his book Asayl Al Jarar: "As for those who show their displeasure with this, I say if carrying the heads of the enemy strengthens the hearts of the Muslims or weakens the unbelievers, then there is no objection to such a move. On the contrary, it is something good. Moreover, the fact that unbelievers are deemed unclean (Najis) by Divine Law, does not nullify the permissibility of moving the remains of the unbelievers during times of war; after all, strengthening the army of Islam and terrorizing the armies of the enemy is an unquestionable goal of Divine Law. The permissibility is also confirmed by the fact that this happened during the time of the companions."

After reviewing the above, we follow the righteous position of Imam Shawkani who qualifies the moving of enemy remains during time of war with the goal of strengthening the Muslim army and terrorizing the armies of the unbelievers. This position explains the position of the Prophet, peace be upon him, who did not allow this to happen during normal (non-combat) times. Hence, the evidence that confirms the permissibility of this during times of war is substantially greater that the evidence against.

706 posted on 02/22/2002 11:47:09 PM PST by MarMema
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