Posted on 02/03/2002 9:58:39 AM PST by cjsdoc
Was engaged in a discussion with a big time Lib last night. Her attacks on our Constitution (tainted, it was asserted, for it was drafted by a bunch of greedy white male slave owners who oppressed women), and the role we've played in international affairs (the U.S., I was informed, was the biggest exporter of violence, since we manufacture and distribute "all" of the weapons on the planet) were quite viscious. Nonsense, of course, but I am hoping that someone here could save me a few hours of research and provide some facts and/or some good leads for info. Could someone help with the following questions? 1. With regard to the state of the world when our Constitution was drafted, I suspect our Founding Fathers were remarkable visionaries. It would be interesting to know how other nations were treating subjects such as slavery, the right of women to vote (or the right of common people to vote, for that matter), and the disposition of the drafters concerning these issues. I remember reading years ago that some signers were categorically opposed to slavery, but chose not to push the point as it would have divided the Country before it was even formed. Any factoids out there? 2. How does the U.S. rank, globally, in terms of arms production/exports? 3. How does the U.S. rank in terms of financial aid to developing countries? How much comes from our taxes? How much from humanitarian organizations? 4. It seems that the greatest atrocities in the field of genocide have been committed by Marxists and fascists who attacked citizens of their own countries, and that they have succeeded in these efforts without any help from the U.S. Could someone give me quick list of the killers and the numbers murdered? My apologies if this is not the proper forum for a post such as this; I am a complete newbie. If I am off-base, I would welcome any assistance in finding the correct forum. Thanks very much for any help!
1. With regard to the state of the world when our Constitution was drafted, I suspect our Founding Fathers were remarkable visionaries. It would be interesting to know how other nations were treating subjects such as slavery, the right of women to vote (or the right of common people to vote, for that matter), and the disposition of the drafters concerning these issues. I remember reading years ago that some signers were categorically opposed to slavery, but chose not to push the point as it would have divided the Country before it was even formed. Any factoids out there?
2. How does the U.S. rank, globally, in terms of arms production/exports?
3. How does the U.S. rank in terms of financial aid to developing countries? How much comes from our taxes? How much from humanitarian organizations?
4. It seems that the greatest atrocities in the field of genocide have been committed by Marxists and fascists who attacked citizens of their own countries, and that they have succeeded in these efforts without any help from the U.S. Could someone give me quick list of the killers and the numbers murdered?
My apologies if this is not the proper forum for a post such as this; I am a complete newbie. If I am off-base, I would welcome any assistance in finding the correct forum. Thanks very much for any help!
rhetorical questions? Libs won't answer them, either.
First serious suggestion: paragraphs are our friends.
If you would look at the political splits that existed during the revolution, they were very close to the split on any big political issue: one-third for, one-third against, and one-third not knowing.
A substantial amount of the "third" who were "for" our independence from England were slave owners.
If the colonists had to base a revolution on 'slave-free' states, they would have lost the entire southern section of the states in their movement, and some populations in the north. This means the revolution would most likely not have happened, or would have happened with the British having a tremendous amount of favorable ports and persons within our borders. Not Good!
Consider the possibilites. England would have had incredible power in its colonization. Slavery would have most likely continued; possibly even until today.
If they doubt this, I use the example of South Africa. It was a virtual slave state until a few years ago. Could you imagine how much power it would have had if America was still a colony of Great Britian?
Have fun with with your liberal friend. I always ask them why they didn't think of things like this....
But try not to argue with liberals.....they all get into this "group think" mode to fit their current thinking. I should say non-thinking.
I usually say to them that they have a perfect record. Absolutely nothing they have proposed has worked. It's because they haven't thought it through like the Founders did.
That usually quiets them down.
Pointing out the fact that saying such things in most other countries in the world today would ensure a long trip to the gulag or worse might be a good starting point.
As to the number of people killed by their own marxist/communist governments, I believe the final toll for the 20th century is 50 million (give or take a few thousand). Look around on gun rights web sights--they usually like to give the figure since socialist nations like to confiscate guns before the killin' starts.
Yeah and now it's a marxist state that is quickly sliding down to 3rd world hellhole status. Great progress there.
2. Perhaps the most egregious case of genocide in recent times has been the death of two million Africans from the southern Sudan. Proportionately, in a country of 28 million the Arab Government in Khartoum has matched in savagery anything the Communists were up to in the Ukraine in the nineteen thirties when they allowed 8 million farmers (kulaks) to starve.
As for the short answers:
1. The best testament to the wisdom of the founding fathers is that the French used our constitution as a guide for their constitution, which followed shortly after ours.
The French motto: Liberty, Fraternity, Equality was suggested by Benjamin Franklin, who was then in France.
2. A silly question. The longevity of any nation in history is directly proportional to its ability and willingness to arm itself and use those arms both defensively and offensively.single country in history which came about and existed for any time at all unarmed.
Must be a lesson there.
3. From the UN to police actions in the last 50 years, to private charities, you will find that the US contributes the lions share of foreign aid in all forms, far out of proportion to our population.
4. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin just off the top of my head.
The statistics are not that hard to find; we are talking from tens of millions to a hundred million.
Look up Stalin & Ukraine.
#2. How does the US rank in terms of arms? Who cares? The French built many nuclear plants for third world countries. They also built fighter planes, weapons. So did Russians, Chinese, and others. If we are #1, it is because we make the best, not because we are the most "mean". Like all markets, the market for weapons is competitive and only the best makers survive.
#3 Do you really have to ask this? Between direct aid to countries, our dues in the UN, our support of the IMF, we are by far the most generous nation on earth.
#4 Yes, the marxists have been the worst. The more control a central government has, the more their people suffer. Look at the USSR 30 million dead... Germany in WW2 caused 50 million to die.... Here is a breakdown taken from JPFO.org: 1915 - 1917 Ottoman Turkey, 1.5 million Armenians murdered; 1929 - 1953 Soviet Union, 20 million people that opposed Stalin were murdered; 1933 - 1945 Nazi occupied Europe, 13 million Jews Gypsies and others that opposed Hitler were murdered; 1948 - 1952 China, 20 million anti communists; 1960 - 1981 Guatemala, 100,000 Mayan Indians Murdered; 1971 - 1979 Uganda, 300,000 Christians and Political Rivals of Idi Amin murdered; 1975 - 1979 Cambodia, 1 million educated persons murdered.
Go see the www.jpfo.org site.
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