Posted on 11/12/2001 9:38:53 AM PST by nicmarlo
An American Airlines A-300 reported mechanical trouble while waiting to take off Monday morning, about an hour before it crashed just outside News York's JFK Airport.
AA Flight 587 was scheduled to take off at 8:00 a.m. but was held on the ground for an hour and fifteen minutes to repair an unidentified mechanical problem, a travel agent familiar with the flight told WABC Radio.
Additionally, a United Airlines pilot says he over-heard a radio report from Flight 587's pilot saying he was experiencing engine trouble before the plane exploded in mid-air over New York's Jamaica Bay.
The Bush administration has announced the FBI believes that Flight 587 did explode in mid-air and is working to determine the cause.
Hillary has evaluated the situation and just surmised in an interview on MSNBC, "It could have been much worse."
On Fox 5 NY a man named Kenneth Brown said this to Rosanna ? and John ?
John: Ken, you there?
Ken, yes yes I am.
John: Can you tell us what you saw Ken?
Ken: Alright, I was out on the boat about a hundred twentieth a hundred nineteenth st when un we stopped the boat cause we have an engine..yah know the engine was making weird sounds, so we stopped the boat and we were back by the engine and I heard a popping sound...not like a a a I cant even say it was an explosion, it was more like a pop and then like a whishing sound and then part of the wing came off.
John:Where was the plane at that moment?
Ken: Right over the bay. Right over the bay
John So is it almost right above you?
Ken: Yes, kinda to the north of us, cause we where more to the east channel drive at that time, on that side of Jamaica Bay and um the pieces that came off the wing...flew into the um tail and tore the tail off and as soon as that happened the plane went belly up towards us and towards the east and it just dove straight down, like the uhh the belly of the plane actually turned toward the south and it went straight down into the ground.
John: So you saw some big pieces of this plane come off...
Ken:We was the first ones on the scene and then the police boat came and we helped them pick up parts of the boat..uh..parts a the plane. We actually took up the blue A off of the tail we put that in the boat. Ummm the picture of the....another piece of the whole top of the tail with the flag on it was laying in shallow water. We took up allot of pieces of the boat...the plane we put it on the boat and took them in to the police boat an helped load em onto the police boat but a a the engine
Rosannabreaks in: Well it sounds like you have some crucial information Ken...
His voice rising Ken says: See the engine...everybody keeps saying the engine fell off...if it fell off it fell off on the way down....
John:U Huh
Ken: That plane as soon as its tail came off it just bellied up and went straight down, so yah know people saying yah know the engine came off, but that came off after the fact. Now as far as explosion, something was happening over the bay, something made the wing shatter and took of the tail. and uh the way I seen it , it still looked like it had its engines on as it was going down.
John: Have you spoken to anyone there uh Ken have you talked to any members of the..
Ken Yeh a yeh police I gave the police a guy in a police boat my name and all that and when I was helping em with ya know the parts of the plane
Woman Ken you sound very shacking up , I'm sure this has..
Ken: I'm still shacking, its a its just a terrible sight. Ya know its something ya see on a movie Ya know how the plane..ya just just knew it..that it wouldn't, as it was going down I was saying hit the ocean hit the ocean thinking ya know maybe it cleared, its only 4 blocks wide but the plane just turned over and came straight down. It was..its a sight to see..it was ya know stunned me
Woman Were you able to keep your composure and think clearly at that point?
Ken: Yes, actually actually the things was starting to fly down toward the boat so we backed up a little bit toward the the trestles the A train trestle and then we came back to see if they was any...ah cause at one time I thought I could see a seat but I wasn't even sure, Nothing heavy came down, everything floated down
Woman: Do you think you got everything that was in the water?
Ken Mostly everything that was floating yah. Cause a the police boat came like the within 5 minutes..3 minutes maybe but that plane was gone in 6 seconds, when I heard the popping sound and seen the flames seen the uh wing hit the back tail an that came off it couldn't a been more than 3 seconds for it was down
John: So your saying the wing came off and hit the tail?
Ken: Parts yes...the whole section of the tail was what we recovered. The A the little flag on the top of the tail section that whole section, like the 30 foot top of that was stuck in the sand...in the water about 5 feet of water but there was other pieces floating around..as a matter of fact I took the blue A and we pulled that part on the boat and brought it over to the police boat. They was asking for our help then allot of boats came by allot of police boats
John:Nick your sitting hearing what Ken is saying that if any any questions for him?
Nick Well um it sounds like Ken is your describing is a again that something exploded uh to cause these pieces of the wing to come out. Is that what you sug..
Ken: Exactly something happened to that wing that sent pieces of it back to the tail.
John was it the left wing or the right wing Ken do ya know?
Ken ahh see now like my friend..well.. a it bellied up to me and a when it bellied up to the east it a looked like the right wing cause the left wing still looked intact to me. It looked like the right wing had come off..or part of it
John: well that would fit with what the
(over talk..engine..saying..?)Nick: Unnn but again Ken Kinda saying the engine fell off after the fact but still potentially the engine exploding could could cause pieces of the engine to fly I mean what may have happened was a a series of events where pieces if the engine actually flew back and struck the tail or even that pieces of the engine and the wing at the same time so a but a Kens observations of the tail is a very interesting clue
John Do you live around there Ken?
Ken Yes, I live in Hamilton beach right off Jamaica Bay and a thats the whole thing..That plane would have went over Rockaway cause it was still like level until the tail came off and then it just bellied up and spun around and came straight down uh otherwise it would..that tail..as soon as it shattered thats when the plane lost everything
Nick: Now Ken did you see actual flames coming out of an engine that was..?
Ken: There was flames on the belly of the plane..I don't know weather it was the engine or ya know, but the plane bellied up towards us as it was going down and flames in the a..in that vicinity of the engines or whatever like underneath the plane
Well Ken we a thank you for your time
Ken: No Problem
When events like this occur the tin foil crowd comes out with all the common old lines that government is lying, covering up to keep people calm, etc. etc.
Well, if that's true the government should read these threads: Obviously they're doing a terrible job at keeping people calm -- you hear enough "I'm going to crawl back into my Y2K hole" to wonder if everyone is afraid to peek out of their front door.
The government has NOT said that the anthrax was not a terrorist event. It has said it doesn't know. Contrary to popular belief, you can't always know precisely what the source of an incident is. Sometimes, like with a Unabomber, you can't get things figured out that quickly -- the evidence just isn't there. And sometimes planes crash, they fail. Sometimes people make errors and it costs lives. Not everything that happens is part of some grand conspiracy.
What is especially troubling is that people who immediately and automatically believe that some kind of coverup is occuring would not accept the truth if the truth was simply a catastrophic turbine blade failure (which happens about once every 10 years). They would WANT the government to lie to say it was something that it wasn't, in order to authenticate their own personal worst fears. They wouldn't be happy with the truth, if the truth didn't support their grand conspiracy theories.
I apologize again for maligning you earlier, you didn't deserve it, and it was only my own frustration at all the tin foil being produced over a tragic situation.
DUH. I'm surprised she didn't blame it on Bush's tax cut.
Thanks for the post. I have heard on t.v., from SEVERAL witnesses, they heard pops, then saw the engine fall. This guy's account is more informative than any others I seen. Raises suspicions, I'd say, about "mechanical problems."
chelsee will do that. Shows unanimity!
Well, it's happened (see humor post): Hillary Blames Bush for Flight 587 Crash; Says Chelsea Walking in Rockaway Beach
This doesn't sound like the engine disintegrating as the initial event.
thr 091
Germany-Iran-Plane Defect /WRD/
Lufthansa Tehran flight returns to Frankfurt after engine trouble Berlin, Nov 12, IRNA -- A Lufthansa airplane, en route from Frankfurt to Tehran, had to return to Frankfurt Sunday night, one hour after take-off because of engine troubles, passengers told IRNA here Monday. The pilot of plane notified the terrified passengers of problems in one of the engines, saying they would fly back to Frankfurt. Following a five-hour delay, passengers were redirected to a substitute flight to Tehran.
OT/HZ/AH
End
::irna 20:16
Or, the airplane flies because of Bernouli (lift), not Marconi (radio).
I know it's not unusual to have airplane problems, however, the plane took off, in this case, over an hour later. This post doesn't say if they sat for that long. Sounds like problems were only discovered en route.
I know planes have mecahnical problems all the time. What's interesting in this one is that Germany is due this week to ok the use of 3,900 of their troops in the 'war against terror'. 100 special forces on the ground in Afghanistan and the remaining in various countries... and Iran I think has offered assistance too recently....
Stretch I know, but still a curious thing.
Germany-Afghan War /WRD/
Defense minister specifies German troops' war duties
Berlin, November 12, IRNA -- Defense Minister Rudolf Scharping specified the duties and locations for a possible deployment of some 3,900 German soldiers in the Afghan war, the Berlin-based Tagesspiegel reported here Monday.
According to Scharping, only 100 elite soldiers would be
stationed inside Afghanistan, as the remaining units like special naval forces, medical and airborne transportation units could be deployed in places like Turkey, northern Africa and even in Germany. Regarding the deployment of anti-biological defense forces, Scharping added, there are no specific plans yet. The German parliament is expected to approve the military operation this Thursday.
OT/HZ/JB
End
::irna 20:54
In another thread, an article dated 10/15 Al Qayeda says the storms of planes will continue. This AFTER we have sky marshalls. After higher passenger security. These people are not stupid. They know darn well these planes will have to crash by other means than hijacking...
Just thinking out loud... probably no connection, but worth remembering for future reference.
IM as mad as HECK!!!! Give me a 747!!!
How was that?
Just thinking out loud.
Too many coincidences to make the assumption it was an "accident." Too many possibilities not to "think out loud" that something more than "accident" occurred. (Just thinking out loud myself.)
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