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Violence Policy Center Applauds Emerson Decision, Court Upholds Protective Order Gun Ban (SPINS)
VPC ^ | Oct 16 | Josh Suckermann

Posted on 10/16/2001 4:07:22 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan

Violence Policy Center Applauds Emerson Decision, Court Upholds Protective Order Gun Ban

NRA-Endorsed Suit Would Have Allowed Domestic Abusers To Keep Their Guns

WASHINGTON, DC—The Violence Policy Center (VPC) today applauded the decision of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit in United States v. Emerson. In reversing a lower district court ruling, the judges rejected the argument that the Second Amendment guarantees domestic abusers an individual right to keep and bear arms and that the plaintiff, Timothy Joe Emerson, was denied due process when arrested for possessing firearms under 1994's federal Protective Order Gun Ban. The VPC is a national non-profit organization working to stop gun death and injury in America.

Mathew Nosanchuk, VPC litigation director and legislative counsel states, "Today the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the sweeping arguments of the gun lobby that the Second Amendment guarantees domestic abusers an individual right to possess a gun. Final score: public safety, one; gun lobby and domestic abusers, zero."

Timothy Joe Emerson, a Texas resident, had been charged with violating 18 U.S.C.§ 922(g)(8), which prohibits possession of a firearm by persons under a domestic violence restraining order. Emerson's wife obtained such an order from a judge in 1998, after Emerson had acknowledged his mental instability. Two months later Emerson's wife and daughter went to his office, where Emerson pulled his Beretta pistol from his desk drawer during an argument. Emerson was subsequently indicted for illegally possessing two 9mm pistols, a semi-auto SKS assault rifle with bayonet, a semi-auto M-14 assault rifle, and an M1 carbine and tried in District Court. Emerson contended that his case should be dismissed on the grounds that the federal ban on gun possession by those under a protective order for domestic violence violated the Second Amendment. The district judge sided with Emerson and dismissed the charges.

Justice Department prosecutors then appealed the trial court's decision, stating that it directly conflicted with long-established legal precedent regarding the Second Amendment laid down by the U.S. Supreme Court in United States v. Miller [307 U.S. 174 (1939)] as well as the language of the Second Amendment itself, which speaks in terms of a limited right to keep and bear arms in connection with service in a state militia.


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Dave La Course of SAF responded.

The Violence Policy Center missed the point. Their Second Amendment argument failed, and they must quote the minority judge!!!

And this law is not yet upheld in finality, and Emerson could appeal.

In addition, he was never accused of domestic abuse, and he was cleared of all other criminal charges. Will talk to his attorneys tomorrow.

1 posted on 10/16/2001 4:07:22 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
This is just their attempt to spin a fairly major loss in their favor.
2 posted on 10/16/2001 4:09:54 PM PDT by Anotherpundit
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To: Dan from Michigan
We agree with the district court that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to privately keep and bear their own firearms that are suitable as individual, personal weapons and are not of the general kind or type excluded by Miller, regardless of whether the particular individual is then actually a member of a militia.(66) However, for the reasons stated, we also conclude that the predicate order in question here is sufficient, albeit likely minimally so, to support the deprivation, while it remains in effect, of the defendant's Second Amendment rights. Accordingly, we reverse the district court's dismissal of the indictment on Second Amendment grounds.
3 posted on 10/16/2001 4:10:45 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
militia act 1792
4 posted on 10/16/2001 4:28:29 PM PDT by IRtorqued
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To: Dan from Michigan
You can read the actual Fifth Circuit opinion here.

Contrary to the spin that the "Violence Policy Center" tries to put on it, the opinion is a clear win for the Second Amendment. It contains several pages of legal and historical analysis supporting the court's conclusion that the Second Amendment protects INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS to keep and bare arms. As the opinion concludes:

We have found no historical evidence that the Second Amendment was intended to convey militia power to the states, limit the federal government's power to maintain a standing army, or applies only to members of a select militia while on active duty. All of the evidence indicates that the Second Amendment, like other parts of the Bill of Rights, applies to and protects individual Americans.

We find that the history of the Second Amendment reinforces the plain meaning of its text, namely that it protects individual Americans in their right to keep and bear arms whether or not they are a member of a select militia or performing active military service or training.

We reject the collective rights and sophisticated collective rights models for interpreting the Second Amendment. We hold, consistent with Miller, that it protects the right of individuals, including those not then actually a member of any militia or engaged in active military service or training, to privately possess and bear their own firearms, such as the pistol involved here, that are suitable as personal, individual weapons and are not of the general kind or type excluded by Miller.

5 posted on 10/16/2001 4:39:08 PM PDT by Bubba_Leroy
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To: Dan from Michigan
This is a huge victory for us, and a thumb in the eye of Sarah Brady.

Let them spin it any way they like, but the 5th Circuit just invalidated nearly every gun control law on the books with this decision.

L

6 posted on 10/16/2001 4:44:29 PM PDT by Lurker
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To: Dan from Michigan
You bet they missed the point. This is the best decision on firearms I've seen in many, many years!
7 posted on 10/16/2001 5:01:10 PM PDT by sailor4321
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To: Dan from Michigan
Talk about spin. My understanding is that Emerson wasn't an "abuser," and the restraining order was not a "domestic violence" restraining order.
8 posted on 10/16/2001 5:03:42 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Lurker
The have killed a ton of the assault weapon and Saturday Night Special bans. The stuff that will remain are things like 10-20-Life, prohibitions on felons, and that sort of thing.

We got a very good decision. If the Supreme Court goes ahead with this ruling or sticks with the District Judge's ruling, then it's a big win.

The Brady Bunch probably has a serious case of heartburn goin' on.

9 posted on 10/16/2001 5:05:09 PM PDT by hchutch
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To: Dan from Michigan
Mathew Nosanchuk, VPC litigation director and legislative counsel states, "Today the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the sweeping arguments of the gun lobby that the Second Amendment guarantees domestic abusers an individual right to possess a gun. Final score: public safety, one; gun lobby and domestic abusers, zero."

Listen to this knucklehead gloat!
Well, I can't blame him because it isn't often that gun control liberals and pedophiles win anything in court.

10 posted on 10/16/2001 5:17:15 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Dan from Michigan
Ha ha! What liars!

They lost big time, and they are trying to hide that fact.

While the decision was a loss for Mr. Emerson, for gun rights in general, it was a HUGE WIN!

11 posted on 10/16/2001 5:19:44 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Dan from Michigan
Author: Josh Suckermann

LOL !!!
Dan, did you make that up?

12 posted on 10/16/2001 5:20:46 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
Sort of. The head of VPC is Josh Sugarmann.
13 posted on 10/16/2001 5:21:55 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan
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To: B Knotts; Dan from Michigan; Jeff Head
And Emerson did a lot of that to himself. Frankly, he was stupid. We'd have fared better had it been merely a hunting rifle he had - no threats involved - but even with his screw-ups, he was good enough.

"Perfect is the enemy of good enough." Sergei Gorshkov, CinC Soviet Navy.

14 posted on 10/16/2001 5:22:25 PM PDT by hchutch
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To: Dan from Michigan
bump
15 posted on 10/16/2001 5:53:23 PM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Dan from Michigan
A quick read indicates that this court's review of the history of the Second Amendment and their interpretation should be bookmarked for future reference. What's distressing is the number of other courts that have found that the individual's right to bear arms is limited by the Milita preamble to the amendment. This appellate court's interpretation is indeed refreshing. Although the Supreme Court will no doubt take this up someday, the arguments presented in this decision will hopefully (prayerfully!) lead that court to uphold the rights of the individual.
16 posted on 10/16/2001 6:15:14 PM PDT by CedarDave
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To: Dan from Michigan
my friend, who is hard working and honest as the day is long, is now forbidden to own a gun because his two-timing bitch, carpetbagger (non-citizen) dutch wife, is divorcing him at the bequest of her parents. he says it's automatic and no proof is needed once she files a restraining order and he becomes an 'instant criminal'. that clinton/carpetbagger disease really rubs off on some people. i hope she takes her sorry ass back to holland. but he'll be damned if he's giving up his 2nd amendment right.
17 posted on 10/16/2001 6:24:20 PM PDT by rockfish59
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To: B Knotts
While the decision was a loss for Mr. Emerson, for gun rights in general, it was a HUGE WIN!

Sorry, but I don't see how. What difference does it make if the court rules that the Second Amendment does indeed protect the public's rights to own of weapons suitable for military use if those same rights may be infringed without substantive due process?

Emerson has been accused of domestic violence. I have no problem believing that he was not a nice person. On the other hand, I am not aware of his ever having been convicted of anything. He was in charged with aggravated assault and child endangerment in November of 1998, but has since been acquitted of those charges.

To me, the court's acknowledgement of the Second Amendment only serves to make its decision even more dangerous than it otherwise would be. Essentially, it says that the right to keep and bear arms may only be taken away by due process, but "due process" may be met by having a hearing in which the accused is presumed guilty. What does that say about one's other "due process" rights?

18 posted on 10/16/2001 11:42:15 PM PDT by supercat
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To: Dan from Michigan
NRA-Endorsed Suit Would Have Allowed Domestic Abusers To Keep Their Guns

Don't they mean ACCUSED domestic abusers?

19 posted on 10/16/2001 11:47:13 PM PDT by xm177e2
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To: Dan from Michigan
The Violence Policy Center (VPC) today applauded the decision of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit in United States v. Emerson.

So they applaud that the Second Amendment affirms the right of INDIVIDUALS to keep and bear arms! Glad to have you aboard, PVC!

In reversing a lower district court ruling, the judges rejected the argument that the Second Amendment guarantees domestic abusers an individual right to keep and bear arms........

..................but affirms the right for the rest of us.

20 posted on 10/16/2001 11:47:18 PM PDT by Lazamataz
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