The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[Invincibly Ignorant]

2339 meant for you.

[SoothingDave]

The sin nature is passed on by the father, NOT the mother. Hence the necessity for the Holy Spirit to concieve the Child in her womb. Read Romans 5:12-21. Sinned entered the world though Adam. There is no mention of Eve, eventhough she was the one who sinned first.

I appreciate that view, but I don't agree. Because we say that sin entered the world through Adam does not mean that males are "carriers" or the Original Sin. I think there is no mention of Eve in that passge for several reasons, none of which are addressing the transmission mechanics. The author is drawing a parallel between Adam and Christ and it would not do to compare a woman with Christ. For sexual symmetry Adam is used. Similarly, I think there may be a bias against women at work here. Certainly Eve sinned first and brought Adam to sin. If anything sin entered through Eve, not Adam. It's almost like it wasn't "official" until the man made the decision.

SD

[al_c]

Now show me where it says you can enter heaven without accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

Angelo ... you want to handle this one?

[JohnnyM]

Let me ask you a question? What would have happened if Adam had refused Eve and not sinned? Would their children be born with OS??

JM

[al_c]

JohnnyM ... I need to get some work done. I've fallen way behind today so now I have to play catch up. I will jump back in here tomorrow (God willing) and we'll pick up right here where we left off. Deal?

[al_c]

and be done with it.

SoothingDave ... peacemaker.

See y'all tomorrow.

[OLD REGGIE]

Insofar as Jesus IS the Word made flesh. Mary WAS the first person to hear the Word of God (along with Joseph & a mixture of farm animals - depending on which creche' you have).

You'll have no problem with me. Be prepared!

[IMRight]

Let me ask you a question? What would have happened if Adam had refused Eve and not sinned?

Their marriage would have been shot to H.... well you get the idea.

[SoothingDave]

Let me ask you a question? What would have happened if Adam had refused Eve and not sinned? Would their children be born with OS??

I have no idea. As enticing as women are and as much as misery loves company I just can't see Adam holding out forever!

SD

[JohnnyM]

so, you're a Jew al_c? Seems the truth about the Catholic Church has surfaced. They do not beleive Christ's sacrifice was sufficient. They do not beleive you are saved by faith. They do not believe in the inerrancy of the Word. They do believe that you can enter heaven without accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior. That the testimony of Christ is null and void. Sounds a little like Judaism to me. If you can enter heaven without Christ, then why did God send his Son to die for us?? If there was already a way to get there, then sending His Son sure was a waste. And once again you have failed to cite Scripture. I will no longer reply to anymore of your responses until you cite Scripture. Don't pass the buck to someone who doesn't even believe Christ is the Son of God. If you can't answer this most basic question on your own using Scripture, then you better return to the Word and seek the Truth.

I am tired of playing word games. Can you or can you not enter heaven without accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior?? If you think you can you better have Scripture to back it up.

JM

[JohnnyM]

deal. I will be looking forward to your response.

JM

[al_c]

See #2345 ... and cut the snide remarks. We can continue this conversation in a civil manner tomorrow.

[al_c]

Disregard my last post ... I see your response to my #2345. Have a good evening.

[JHavard]

No, but I wasn't quite refering to being of one mind (although "may they be one, Father. Even as you and I are one" is close). Close but no prize, we are all one in God.

If each man is his own interpreter of Scripture there is no authority - or each man is the authority, to extend to determining the canon of Scripture. If the Protestant response is that God is the authority (true) and he works through the spirit (true) to ensure that we interpret without significant error (hmm - everyone?)You got it right, with out significant error in matters of salvation.

then either Protestants would not disagree on matter of salvation or they are wrong about the influence of the HS or some small number of them have the Truth and the rest are deluding themselves and are no better than the Catholics.I don't think there are any fundemental main line churches out there, that haven't got enough truth to find salvation if they follow what they have.

It's the non Biblical additions that I feel could hurt them more then anything else.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Peace! Apparently neither of us meant what the other thought. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

That wasn't the issue. It wasn't about guessing what either you or I were thinking. I gave 2 examples of you lying about what I said. In all the back and forth I've had on these threads with the other catholics, they might try a little twisting now and then, but none have outright lied about what I've said in a post. I want peace as well and I'm all done pursuing this now. But to this point the apology rings hollow.

[the808bass]

This is not because God failed, but rather our own refusal of the grace of God.

The only refusal of grace that occurs is when we decide that we do not need Jesus for salvation and we can go it alone. Sin is covered by God's grace. Grace doesn't keep score. So we aren't on a scale where Havoc is at 88%, I'm at 58%, D-fendr's at 93% and you're at 93% (notice I put the Catholics high on the scale ;) ). We're either full of grace or empty. Only two categories.

[IMRight]

So the whole infant baptism thing doesn't bother you? Or isn't it a significant issue?

[SoothingDave]

We're either full of grace or empty. Only two categories.

This is a fundmental difference in conceptions of "grace." To a non-Catholic or Orthodox Christian "grace" is a state of being. You are either in it or not. It's digital.

To the Catholic it is analog all the way. Grace is a commodity, it is a gift of God Himself which transforms us inside. We can never get enough while we are here and we can lose it if we don't treasure it.

This is one of those basic differences we will have to acknowledge.

SD

[artios]

After analyzing this whole thread, its obvious, and the answer is simple.

[dignan3]

I wasn't aware the RSV, Catholic edition differed from the RSV except it also had the Apocrypha. I found references in GOOGLE to a 1966 RSV Catholic Edition but could find no online editions. (For free, that is.) Since I have no intention of purchasing one, could you point to an online source?

Not that I could find so I guess you'll just have to trust me on this one :>). I saw the RSV(Catholic edition), also known as the Ignatius Bible, at a bookstore yesterday. If you are ever at Barnes and Noble check it out.

I am still confused.

As am I after reading what you quoted. Whoever wrote that paragraph doesn't know how to write very well, that's for sure.

Personally, I think that we have prety much exhausted this topic and should move on.

Pray for John Paul II