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The FReeper Foxhole Profiles Benedict Arnold - Oct. 4th, 2003
http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/served/arnold.html ^
Posted on 10/04/2003 12:01:00 AM PDT by SAMWolf
Lord,
Keep our Troops forever in Your care
Give them victory over the enemy...
Grant them a safe and swift return...
Bless those who mourn the lost. .
FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer for all those serving their country at this time.
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U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues
Where Duty, Honor and Country are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.
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Our Mission: The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans. In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support. The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer. If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions. We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.
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Benedict Arnold (1741 - 1801)
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Benedict Arnold was born on January 14, 1741 in Norwich, Connecticut. Arnold was one of a number of Benedict Arnolds including an early governor of Rhode Island and his father. Arnold's mother was Hannah Waterman King, a wealthy widow, before her marriage to the elder Arnold. The family fortunes were well for a while, however some poor business deals caused some financial problems for the family. Arnold's father turned to the local taverns for solace. Arnold attended school at Canterbury. While there, some of his siblings died from the Yellow Fever.
Without money, Benedict Arnold was withdrawn from school. Arnold was young, full of energy and willing to try and do anything. With the lack of the structure of the school regime, and lax parental control, Arnold was often in trouble. His mother finally found help in the form of family: cousins Daniel and Joshua Lathrop took Arnold in as an apprentice to their large and successful apothecary business. He left his apprenticeship a couple of times to join the army for periods of time during the French and Indian War, but remained in the employ of his cousins for years.
Benedict Arnold as a Colonel in 1776.
Arnold's mother died in 1759, and his father followed his wife in death two years later. After leaving the apprenticeship, Arnold traveled to Europe, buying supplies for his own apothecary which he established in New Haven. The only surviving member of his immediate family was Hannah, his sister, and she became his assistant. His business dealings drifted into smuggling...in contempt of the customs laws of the Crown.
Margaret Mansfield became the bride of Benedict Arnold in 1767. They had three sons. Prior to the official outbreak of war, Arnold became a Captain in the Governor's Second Company of Guards. When the word spread of the Battles of Lexington and Concord, Arnold marched off to the action with his troop. He was eager for action and at Cambridge he requested permission of the Massachusetts Committee of Safety to capture Ft. Ticonderoga.
Ethan Allen and his Green Mountain Boys were as equally eager to capture such a prize and the two groups met up with each other at Bennington. Arnold was surprised and a little angered because Ethan Allen did not care if Arnold had permission from the Committee of Safety and Arnold couldn't talk Allen out of relinquishing command. Arnold had to concede to accompanying Allen and his rowdy, rough and tumble fighters. On May 10, they surprised the British garrison and the Green Mountain Boys celebrated by invading the rum stores of the British and getting totally sloshed. They virtually ignored Benedict Arnold except when they were teasing and jeering him. Arnold had an argument with Colonel Easton, who was to deliver the missive announcing the victory of the capture to Massachusetts...which doesn't make it surprising that Arnold spent time with the captured enemy officers than his fellow countrymen.
Benedict Arnold's troops work their way through the Maine wilderness on their way to Canada
Arnold eventually gained some control by way of his sailing experience, however he and Allen really never could see things the same way...except for the essential need of an invasion of Canada. Easton returned from his mission to Massachusetts while Arnold and Allen were planning the Canadian Invasion. Easton had done his best to diminish Arnold's participation in the capture of Ticonderoga and the two were arguing once more. Arnold challenged him to a duel and Easton refused. When the fight got physical, Allen and Easton both left. He proceeded with his own plans, but soon a Massachusetts Committee commanded him to place himself under Colonel Benjamin Hinman. With his quick temper, he immediately dismissed all his troops after resigning his commission. He was not any happier when he found out his men had been recruited by his nemesis, Colonel Easton. Completely affronted, he went to Albany and there sent off a statement of the situation at Ticonderoga to Continental Congress.
His experiences in the North were not very happy ones, and while his own behavior was not exemplary in any fashion, he still had the right to feel angry over the his treatment by the other men. He had been caught in the middle of the political machinations of Connecticut and Massachusetts, both vying for the kudos of the accomplishment of the capture of the British stores at Fort Ticonderoga. When Massachusetts acquiesced to Connecticut's preeminence in the territory, Arnold most certainly felt abandoned.
Peggy Arnold, sketched by John André in 1778
After the illness of his wife, and succumbing to a bout of gout himself, Arnold traveled to Cambridge to settle up his accounts with the Massachusetts Committee of Safety. There, he again received shabby treatment and was given only a small portion of his expenses, no where near his total bill. Piqued, he turned the accounting over to Silas Deane, who in turn presented them to the Continental Congress, and he was finally repaid the balance of the account.
The Canadian invasion plans were still in the works and it was George Washington who proposed the name of Benedict Arnold to the Continental Congress. He was commissioned a Colonel, and began to implement his plans. Arnold was given pretty much a free hand by General Schuyler and enjoyed his independence. The subsequent wilderness march is one the examples of the incredible stamina and daring these men had. It will remain a very important American military feat for ages.
Washington had placed a great deal of trust in Arnold and he solidly backed that trust. However, the weather conditions due to the lateness of the season would present a problem for Arnold and his men. The terrain was difficult and rocky and the water supplies were not adequate due to the severe rainfall. A letter from Arnold to Schuyler was given to a trustworthy Indian scout who ended up not to be so trustworthy. It was placed into the hands of the British.
After repeated American failures to carry Balcarres Redoubt, Gen. Benedict Arnold wheeled his horse and dashed through the crossfire of both armies to the Breymann Redoubt, also on Freeman Farm. He arrived just as American troops began their assault on British fortifications. He joined in the final surge that overwhelmed the German soldiers defending the work. Upon entering the redoubt, he was wounded in the leg. Had he died during this assault, no doubt, posterity would have known few names brighter than that of Gen. Benedict Arnold.
Arnold was zealous and encouraging, but the conditions were hard. Some of his men deserted, taking much-needed supplies with them. Snow, rain, mud, hunger were just some of the conditions the troops had to endure while pressing on to Quebec. Arnold finally reached the St. Lawrence with six hundred men and Arnold was commended for his success.
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TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: benedictarnold; biography; british; canada; freeperfoxhole; johnandre; revolutionarywar; traitor; veterans; westpoint
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Benedict Arnold tried to take Quebec, however a rainstorm prevented any movement for three days and in the interim, the intercepted letter allowed the British to bring reinforcements to add more protection. Arnold fell back to wait for more men by the coming of Colonel Montgomery. He, however had lost a number of his due to the expiration of their subscription. Arnold was soon to lose a number of his own men for the same reason and smallpox broke out at the same time among the American forces. Snow began to fall and on December 31, 1775 a battle ensued, but things went poorly for the Americans. Montgomery fell and Benedict Arnold was wounded with a bullet in his leg. Daniel Morgan was forced to take over and did so fiercely. They were trapped, however, by their lack of knowledge of the area and were forced to surrender. Arnold was in command and refused to end the seige, bellowing orders from his sickbed. He did not want to leave unless he was triumphant. He requested reinforcements which he received only in small amounts. He was given high praise by Washington and others and made a Brigadier General which he was happy about, but the expedition failed anyway.
Arnold went to Montreal where he received a delegation of members of Congress to deal with Canada. The diplomatic acts failed and eventually Arnold checked an attack by the British and Indians and successfully evacuated Montreal. Seizures of stores were ordered for the severely lacking troops and Arnold plundered efficiently and "legally". Arnold ended up to be one of the last to leave Canada shoreline on the retreat south.
Benedict Arnold's summer battles of 1776 involved legal matters, not tactical warfare. He was being taken to court for the plundering of Montreal's stores. Major arguments ensued where Arnold accused another officer, Hazen, of not taking control, and as a result, he had to. The arguments between to the two were hot and heavy and Hazen eventually insisted to be court-martialed in order to clear his name. The court took the brunt of Arnold's anger and they demanded an apology which, Arnold, of course, refused to do. Instead, he challenged them. The court demanded his arrest. The task of ending the quarrel fell to General Horatio Gates who knew a man of Arnold's ability and acumen was needed in the growing heat between the British and the Americans in the North. Arnold was exonerated. He was soon in charge of a small fleet of ships and ordered to Ticonderoga.
Here again, Arnold was successful, but found his critics willing to point fingers and pass blame. The Americans lost ten of their fifteen ships and Arnold was blamed. While not a victory, the battle showed the British the stamina and tenacity the Americans had.
A man who was the messenger between Benedict and the British is caught by American soldiers.
The following winter was trying for Arnold. Some of his old Army nemeses rose up once more to bring charges against him. He spent most of the winter defending himself. He saw a number of junior officers receive promotions to Brigadier General above him, leaving him behind. Here again, political machinations, robbed him of his due, he felt. Washington was upset over the situation and spent time trying to calm his friend and find out what happened in Congress, especially for the fact that he was not consulted over the promotions. Washington was not completely successful at either task and Arnold ended up traveling to Philadelphia to get answers for himself. Because of an action that took place on the way he successfully routed the British after they burned Danbury he was appointed a major general, but without his seniority. This fact rankled Arnold, as well as the outstanding account which he was due repayment for his expenses. Congress tried to be affable with Arnold, but still refused to restore his seniority. Washington went to bat for Arnold and submitted a letter to Congress commending Arnold. With nothing being done, even with the aid of the Commander-in-Chief, Arnold resigned in July 1777.
That same day, Washington had recommended Arnold to aid Schuyler near Ticonderoga. Arnold felt the opportunity too great, and asked to put his resignation on hold. He immediately took off for the north. This was an opportunity he could not miss! At the same time, Congress voted not to reinstate Arnold's seniority and he would never forgive them for the slight.
Major Andre, Arnold's British contact, is arrested.
Upon his arrival in the north, Arnold was immediately embroiled in another war between states, as he had been early in his military career. Here two American forces were "warring" against the other for leadership. Most of the New Englanders backed Horatio Gates, while the New Yorkers in the areas were supporting General Schuyler. Arnold was torn, but threw his "support" to Schuyler since he was in similar straits as Arnold.
Later, it was Arnold, the only volunteer, to take Fort Schuyler. He accomplished this by faking out the British into thinking there were hundreds of thousands of American forces heading to the fort, when in actuality he had less than a thousand. He entered a fort empty of the enemy.
Returning to the main force, Arnold found himself under the leadership of General Gates. It wasn't too long before the two men found a difference of opinion in tactical stance when the Battle of Freeman's Farm (Battle of Saratoga September 19-October 7, 1777) began. Arnold was ripe and ready for battle and wanted to press his forces before the American lines. Gates, however, held him back and refused reinforcements, remaining cautious. When Gates removed some of his forces without his knowledge AND failed to credit Arnold and his forces with their participation in the Battle of Freeman's Farm to Congress, it put him over the edge. He wanted to leave, but Gates pulled his command instead for insubordination.
John André was hanged in Tappan, New York in 1780
Having a little time to think, Arnold paced his tent, realizing his reluctance to actually leave when there was soon to be some action taking place. So, he paced and complained, paced and complained and paced and complained a little more. Finally, while his aides were trying to keep him informed and not hearing anything satisfactory, he ordered his horse and charged into battle, conveniently ignoring the fact he had no official command. The sight of the fighting man invigorated the troops and they rallied around him. In two severe assaults, Arnold led the men to push open the center of the enemy's line. Backed by Daniel Morgan and his riflemen, the pressure from the American forces was so strong, the British collapsed. As victory was staring the Americans in the face, Arnold's horse was shot and fell on the same leg that had been injured before. It was Arnold's actions, however, that perhaps more than any officer there, led to the American success, because ten days later, Burgoyne conceded and as a direct result, France came to the aid of the infant country.
1
posted on
10/04/2003 12:01:00 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
To: snippy_about_it; PhilDragoo; Johnny Gage; Victoria Delsoul; Darksheare; Valin; bentfeather; radu; ..
Arnold's seniority was subsequently restored, but he was already too angry to forgive Congress, and never would. He was now also crippled, a blow to his pride after being such an actively athletic man. He spent the winter of 1777-1778 with the army at Valley Forge. On May 30th, 1778, Benedict Arnold signed the Oath of Allegiance to his country. It was signed at Artillery Park in Valley Forge and witnessed by Henry Knox. After the evacuation of the British in Philadelphia, Washington appointed him commandant of the city.
John Andre, Officer in British army, posing as civilian conspired with American traitor Benedict Arnold, received plans of defenses at West Point, captured before mission completed, tried by U.S. military court, found guilty as spy & hanged at Tappan, New York.
In Philadelphia, still recuperating, he met Peggy Shippen, a boisterous young woman, the baby of the three daughters of Judge Edward Shippen. (William Shippen, his cousin, was surgeon general to the Continental Army.) Arnold pursued and wooed Miss Peggy Shippen who was missing the company of Captain John Andre, and after some misgivings on her part and the hesitation of her father, Arnold finally succeeded. Peggy was eighteen and Arnold was thirty-eight when they married. His marriage into the Shippen family brought him social status, however, it was something he really could not afford. The couple lived well beyond their means, and as a result, Arnold entered into some shady business dealings, including shipping, real estate speculation and authorizing the use of government supplies for his own personal needs. With people in Congress eyeing everything he did, he was soon brought up on charges and was court martialed. He defended himself, furiously as always, but he was found guilty on two charges: using government wagons for his personal use and issuing a pass to a ship he later invested in. Washington, himself pronounced the charges "imprudent and improper" and "peculiarly reprehensible."
By May of 1779, Arnold had begun bargaining with the British. Why would a man commit treason against his country, especially one who had fought so valiantly? We can only speculate. He was certainly angry and hurt over the many slights he received over the years. He probably felt unappreciated by his country and those he fought with, even sacrificing his own leg for the cause. His pride was most likely the biggest piece of his life that was damaged humiliation was always an affront Arnold could never take. Money, of course, played a big part. He was offered in excess of 10,000 pounds and a commission in the British military.
Peggy (Mrs. Benedict Arnold) and child (seated pose). Painting by Sir Thomas Lawrence.
At the time, Arnold's wife was considered an innocent in the matter, however, new research leads us to believe that the young woman played an important part in knowing what was going on and aiding her husband's endeavors. The occupation of Philadelphia during the winter of 1777-1778 was an exciting one for the young woman. Parties, routs, and balls were all aspects of the social scene with numerous British officers and Tory sympathizers. Peggy had made some friends among them.
The bounty Arnold offered the British was West Point. He began correspondence with Major John Andre by a circuitous route. Andre had been friends with Peggy Shippen Arnold during the Philadelphia occupation. Andre was an adjutant general and intelligence chief of Sir Henry Clinton. Washington offered Arnold the position of left wing of the army, in the meantime, which earlier in Arnold's career would have been a coup. He used his crippled leg as an excuse and was given West Point instead.
The Defenses at West Point
Andre was the courier between Arnold and Clinton regarding the closing of the deal. With his ship forced back by American troops, Andre was sent on foot back to British lines with a pass from Arnold as well as documents for Clinton in his sock. He was captured and placed into American custody when the documents were found. Arnold heard of his capture and was able to make his escape...to the same ship, the Vulture, which Andre had arrived on. Andre was put on trial, and met his death as a spy. Arnold defected to the British and received substantial remuneration for his defection. These included pay, land in Canada, pensions for himself, his wife and his children (five surviving from Peggy and three from his first marriage to Margaret) and a military commission as a British Provincial brigadier general.
The British provided handsomely for Arnold, but never completely trusted him. He was never given an important military command. They moved to London where he found no job, some admiration and even some contempt. He moved his family to Canada where he reentered the shipping business. The Tories there disliked him and had no use for him, and eventually he returned his family to London. When the fighting began between France and England, he tried again for military service, but to no avail. His shipping ventures eventually failed and he died in 1801, virtually unknown, his wife joining him in death three years later.
Additional Sources: www.mafseminars.com
www.wikipedia.org
theamericanrevolution.org
mrsedivy.com
www.norwichct.org
www.americasstory.com
www.multied.com
researchsmp2.cc.vt.edu
www.archives.gov
www.unc.edu
2
posted on
10/04/2003 12:01:44 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(This Tagline is umop apisdn)
To: All
'Money is this man's god and to get enough of it he would sacrifice his country.' -- Col. John Brown of Pittsfield, Mass. prophetic comments about Benedict Arnold after their failed invasion of Canada. 'Arnold is a traitor, and has fled to the British! Whom can we trust now?' -- General George Washington Within the United States, the name of Benedict Arnold has entered the English language as a synonym for traitor. Outside the US, however, he is thought of in much more neutral terms. In nations such as Canada and the United Kingdom he is regarded as a traitor who became a patriot, while Americans consider him to have done the reverse. Arnold defended his treasonous actions in a letter to Washington, stating, "love to my country actuates my present conduct, however it may appear inconsistent to the world, who very seldom judge right of any man's actions." |
3
posted on
10/04/2003 12:02:21 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(This Tagline is umop apisdn)
To: All
4
posted on
10/04/2003 12:02:50 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(This Tagline is umop apisdn)
To: mark502inf; bedolido; The Mayor; Prof Engineer; PsyOp; Samwise; comitatus; copperheadmike; ...
.......FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!
.......Good Saturday Morning Everyone!
If you would like added to our ping list let us know.
5
posted on
10/04/2003 12:03:37 AM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: All
6
posted on
10/04/2003 12:03:42 AM PDT
by
Support Free Republic
(Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
To: snippy_about_it
Good Morning Snippy.
7
posted on
10/04/2003 12:05:41 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(This Tagline is umop apisdn)
To: SAMWolf
Good morning SAM.
8
posted on
10/04/2003 12:08:42 AM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: snippy_about_it
Present!
9
posted on
10/04/2003 2:54:18 AM PDT
by
manna
To: snippy_about_it
Good morning, Snippy and everyone here at the foxhole. Rain is in the forecast for our neck of the woods. How's it going for you?
10
posted on
10/04/2003 3:07:27 AM PDT
by
E.G.C.
To: snippy_about_it
So now we have the story behind the slur.
G' morning all!
11
posted on
10/04/2003 4:34:37 AM PDT
by
Samwise
(There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
To: SAMWolf
At West Point, in the old Cadet Chapel located in the cemetery, plaques are hung on the wall with the names of every American General who served in the Revolutionary War. This was done in the 19th Century and Benedict Arnold's name was included; apparently in recognition of his period of good service.
However, sometime after the plaques were emplaced, a couple of cadets who were outraged that Benedict Arnold was included, surreptitiously entered the chapel one night and chiseled Arnold's name off the plaque. The plaque remains on the wall to this day with the chiseled out area still empty. If you visit, that plaque is on your right as you enter, about half way up the wall.
To: SAMWolf
I'm back!!!!
Today's classic warship, USS Indiana (BB-1)
Indiana class battleship
displacement. 10,288 t.
length. 350'11"
beam. 69'3"
draft. 24'
speed. 15 k.
complement. 473
armament. 4 13", 8 8", 4 6", 20 6-pdr., 6 1-pdr.
The USS Indiana (BB-1) was laid down 7 May 1891 by William Cramp & Sons, Philadelphia; launched 28 February 1893; sponsored by Miss Jessie Miller, daughter of the Attorney General of the United States; and commissioned 20 November 1895, Captain Robley D. (Fighing Bob) Evans in command.
Following fitting out at Philadelphia Nary Yard, Indiana trained off the coast of New England. This duty continued until the outbreak of the Spanish-American War in 1898, when Indiana formed part of Admiral Sampson's Squadron. The 10 ships sailed south to intercept Cervera's Spanish squadron, known to be en route to the Caribbean. Indiana took part in bombardment of San Juan 12 May 1898, and returned to Key West with the squadron to guard Havana 18 May. After it was discovered that Cervera was at Santiago, Sampson joined Schley there 1 June and took up the blockade.
In late June, Army units arrived and were landed for an assault on Santiago. Cervera saw that his situation was desperate and began his gallant dash out of Santiago 3 July 1898, hoping to outrun the American blockaders. Indiana did not join in the initial chase because of her extreme eastern position on the blockade, but was near the harbor entrance when destroyers Pluton and Furor emerged. In a short time both ships were destroyed by Indiana's guns and those of the other ships. Meanwhile the remaining Spanish vessels were sunk or run ashore, in one of the two major naval engagements of the war.
Indiana returned to her previous pattern of training exercises and fleet maneuvers after the war, and made practice cruises for midshipmen of the Naval Academy before decommissioning 29 December 1903. The battleship recommissioned at New York Navy Yard 9 January 1906. During this phase of her career, Indiana served with the Naval Academy Practice Squadron, sailing to Northern Europe and the Mediterranean. At Queenstown, Ireland, she fired a 21-gun salute 22 June 1911 In honor of the coronation of King George V. This important work in training the Navy's future leaders ended in 1914 and she decommissioned at Philadelphia 23 May 1914.
Indiana recommissioned a second time 24 May 1917, and served through World I as a training ship for gun crews off Tomkinsville, N.Y., and in the York River, Va. She decommissioned at Philadelphia 31 January 1919. The name Indiana was canceled 29 March 1919 and she was reclassified Coast Battleship Number 1 so that the name could be assigned to a newly authorized battleship. She was used as a target in an important series of tests designed to determine the effectiveness of aerial bombs and was sunk in November 1920. Her hulk was sold for scrap 19 March 1924.
13
posted on
10/04/2003 6:04:38 AM PDT
by
aomagrat
(IYAOYAS)
To: E.G.C.
Folks, I just finished downloading the newest critical updates for Windows. Be sure to get those updates if you have Windows.
14
posted on
10/04/2003 6:06:44 AM PDT
by
E.G.C.
To: SAMWolf
Figures a Clinton was involved!
/ joke.
15
posted on
10/04/2003 6:56:50 AM PDT
by
Darksheare
(This tagline exploits frilly lingerie, human weaknesses, and carnal knowledge to subjugate mankind.)
To: aomagrat
Yeah! My goodness that was a long time without you. It's good to see you are getting a break from your busy work schedule.
We missed you and your classic warships.
16
posted on
10/04/2003 6:56:55 AM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: manna
Whoa! First in, you were an early bird today.
:)
17
posted on
10/04/2003 6:59:32 AM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: E.G.C.
Good morning EGC.
Cool and cloudy here today.
18
posted on
10/04/2003 7:02:18 AM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: Samwise; SAMWolf
Good morning Samwise.
So now we have the story behind the slur.
SAM and I were just talking last night about how he hoped the name clinton would become a byword for traitor to future generations just like Benedict Arnold is.
The only problem I see with that is considering both hill and bill, the clinton name could mean so many things the language could be confusing. Just imagine future generations using the name clinton;
That SOB is nothing but a clinton.
He clintoned us to the commies and now look.
Smells like a clinton was in here.
Ewwww, look, he's got a clinton on his sore.
Which one of you dogs clintoned on the carpet?
Oh yeah, clinton this!
Yuck, that food must of been bad, I think I'm gonna clinton.
Well, hopefully future generations will come up with something definitive. No matter, however they use it, it will still mean something awful!
I'm sure SAM and others could come up with some better ones but hey, it's early and I'm just now waking up. ;)
19
posted on
10/04/2003 7:26:45 AM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: Darksheare
Good morning Darksheare.
Figures a Clinton was involved! / joke
LOL. Yep, he certainly has soiled that name for good.
20
posted on
10/04/2003 7:29:47 AM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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