Liturgy: Are Glass Chalices OK for Mass?

Zenit News Agency ^ | September 16, 2003

[wideawake]

It's omitted because the Confiteor is now an "option" which can be replaced by the longer forms of the Kyrie Eleison.

It's one of the more horrific innovations in the Mass.

[Desdemona]

I know the easy answers, I want the hard ones.

[Salvation]

Maybe in an emergency??

I thought it was interesting that even in the days of persecution that metal vessels were chosen!

[Salvation]

**(1) The chalice should be made or at least lined with a precious material. Glass, especially in 21st century America, does not meet that standard by a long shot.

(2) Stone doesn't meet it either, but stone is better than glass because glass is liable to break if the cruets, etc. hit it.

(3) There is no reason why any parish in the US should be unable to afford at least a gold-lined chalice. They cost maybe $200.**

Agree with you here! All the way!!

[wideawake]

I believe it is frequently omitted because it is the most explicit expression in the Mass (along with Canon I) of the cultus of the saints: Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper virginem . . . as well as being a frank and unambiguous acknowledgment that we are all sinners who need God's grace.

Most liberal priests find it intolerably old fashioned and omit it because it contradicts their theological prejudices.

[american colleen]

...because the Confiteor is now an "option" which can be replaced by the longer forms of the Kyrie Eleison.

One of the things that breaks my heart the most. The Confiteor is one of the most beautiful and heartfelt prayers you can say. When I say it, it reminds me how much of a sinner I am and how much I offend Him but it also reminds me of how sorry I am. What prayer brings you to the abject low and the highest high all in a few sentences? It's also kind of a summation of the human race.

I don't know why both the Confiteor and the Kyrie Eleison can't be said.

I honestly believe that most Catholics don't realize what they are missing until they hear it again... that goes for the longer Eucharistic prayer which is hardly ever said. No longer any mention of the Blessed Virgin Mary or "all the angels and saints n."

That is a total break with our Catholic heritage - the "communion of the saints" - something else you never hear. I hope and pray to God that I am passing this down to my own children in such a way that they will treasure the gift they have been given.

[Salvation]

Quite interesting that today's first reading pertains to the Church as the Household of God!

Reading I
1 Tm 3:14-16

Beloved:
I am writing you,
although I hope to visit you soon.
But if I should be delayed,
you should know how to behave in the household of God,
which is the Church of the living God,
the pillar and foundation of truth.
Undeniably great is the mystery of devotion,

Who was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated in the spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed to the Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory.

[Salvation]

So what kind of vessel would we want to use in the Household of God, the Church???

The answer is obvious -- the finest metal available!

[wideawake]

I am raising my children in the Tridentine Rite so they will have all the treasures of the faith readily available to them.

The New Mass will slowly die, I believe.

Those raised in the New Mass generally know less about the faith, are more likely to either leave the faith outright, or marry outside of the faith and will generally have the minimum amount of children even if they stay.

Those raised in the theological richness of the Old Rite will be more likely to remain faithful, to marry among the the faithful and to have many children.

Simple arithmetic will eventually prevail.

[sockmonkey]

The local AmChurch in my town uses butt-ugly blue-purple glazed pottery chalices-just one more reason I prefer to drive 60 miles to Mass.

It bothers me when you know there are beautiful gold vessels and beautiful processional crosses that have been "retired" or put on Ebay to be replaced by something deemed to be more hip.

[american colleen]

Do you drive your kids to CCD classes at the Tridentine parish?

It's a hard thing to be so far away from your community... I don't care about the coffee and donut thing (I never go to that anyway) but it is nice to be able to show your kids that others that they know live their lives as Catholics. When we go to the Tridentine (which I love and my kids are getting more and more out of especially since my daughter is taking Latin this year) we don't know anyone and we live too far away to really be a part of that parish.

[american colleen]

Common sense should prevail, and usually does.

Depends on where you are.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Those raised in the New Mass generally know less about the faith, are more likely to either leave the faith outright, or marry outside of the faith and will generally have the minimum amount of children even if they stay.

Only about 50-60% are marrying in the Church, and only 70% of those to a Catholic, and 20% of the total has been divorced.

Of those remaining within, they are averaging currently 3.4 children per marriage (compared to right around 3.85 per marriage during the Baby Boom). See here.

[Coleus]

My parish doesn't disobey liturgical law by distributing the Precious Blood at sunday Mass. >>>

This is the first I've heard of this. Based on what law is this practice followed?

[ninenot]

Really silly?

It's not hard to take the logic train on this one, Sink.

The acoutrements of a Catholic church are there because the Church recognizes that man is both body and soul. Were man a pure spirit, there would be no need for art, gold, pipe organs--

But since man is also bodily, the significance of these items is quite important. That's why the Church has specifically mandated retaining these items and utilizing them (e.g., Gregorian Chant.)

This re-inforces the necessary concepts of "sacred time, sacred space, sacred language."

The Puritans didn't think all this was necessary--following the iconoclasts in philosophy, and theology. Now we have a 'new Puritan' movement in the Church, not coincidentally associated with the 'married priests/homosex is OK with me/let's jump and screech at worship' people.

Pascendi was the right document--and should be revived, big-time.

[wideawake]

Do you drive your kids to CCD classes at the Tridentine parish?

My kids are not yet old enough for formal instruction, but I would hope to be their main source for doctrinal education in any event. There is a large Catholic homeschooling association in my county.

I am also in a special parochial situation: my pastor celebrates both the Tridentine and NO Masses on Sundays, Holy Days and many other days besides and offers all the traditional devotions along with a very old-fashioned CCD. He also christens, weds and buries his parishioners in the Tridentine Rite if asked.

My parish is also a one-to-two minute drive from my home.

In short, I am one of the most fortunate Catholics in the United States.

[ThomasMore]

Of course, the modern fad for utraquism presents problems on that front.

Incorrect use of the word.  This was associated with the Hussites.

---

from www.cuf.org

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (no. 1390) provides as follows:

Since Christ is sacramentally present under each of the species, Communion under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons, this manner of receiving Communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite. But the sign of Communion is more complete when given under both kinds, since in that form the sign of the Eucharistic meal appears more clearly (GIRM, no. 240). This is the usual form of receiving Communion in the Eastern rites.

In 1984, with Vatican approval, the U.S. bishops authorized reception of Holy Communion under both species for weekday, Sunday, and holy day Masses (This Holy and Living Sacrifice (THLS), nos. 20-21). When one receives only the consecrated bread, one truly receives the glorified body and blood, soul and divinity of our Savior, Jesus Christ. However, the Church has given approval to receiving both the consecrated bread and wine because receiving under both species gives a more complete sign of the "new and everlasting covenant" Christ has established with His bride, the Church (General Instruction to the Roman Missal (GIRM), no. 240, as cited in THLS, no. 18).

from the Catholic Encyclopedia...

II. HISTORY OF DISCIPLINARY VARIATIONS

From the First to the Twelfth Century

It may be stated as a general fact, that down to the twelfth century, in the West as well as in the East, public Communion in the churches was ordinarily administered and received under both kinds. That such was the practice in Apostolic times is implied in I Cor., xi, 28 (see above), nor does the abbreviated reference to the "breaking of bread" in the Acts of the Apostles (ii, 46) prove anything to the contrary. The witness to the same effect for the sub-Apostolic and subsequent ages are too numerous, and the fact itself too clearly beyond dispute, to require that the evidence should be cited here. But side by side with the regular liturgical usage of Communion sub utraque, there existed from the earlist times the custom of communicating in certain cases under one kind alone.

---

If you don't agree with communion under both species, you're entitled to your opinion.  The Church sees it differently.  It's unfortunate that the abuses shine a bad light on a good thing.  We don't have communion under both species at our parish except on Holy Thursday.  I'm not sure why, and it's not on my top ten list to know why.  That said, our sister parish does and it is accomplished with all reverence and according to the rubrics.  It is simply not fair to paint every practitioner of "reception under both species" as being likened to the heretics. I know of no one who thinks they are getting any less grace and therefore demand both species.

Back to the subject matter, we don't use glass at our parish.  And I agree with Hermann...I am sick of the ambiguity and latitude in the norms.  They are unnecessary, confusing and have been part of the problem.  We don't use glass because of experience.  Our last ultra-liberal pastor used glass. Waterford crystal. It was his mother's.  It was precious.  However, it shattered at one mass, after consecration, after the elevation.  It was all over the pastor and the altar.  No way could it be consumed. We also know of another instance upstate where the priest was using a glass ciborium and glass chalice.  When he lifted the ciborium at the "This is the Lamb of God....", he hit the chalice which chipped and went into the now "Blood of Christ" making it dangerous to consume.  I believe that glass is an impractical medium to use.

We use gold and platinum and precious gems for the chalice. Any other cups are gold.

[saradippity]

What diocese do you live in?

[NYer]

Murano glass is tough.

Found this product on the 'net. And, it's bulletproof, too ... lol! Actually the pitcher and salad bowl bear a strong resemblance to those used at our liturgy. I suppose the salad plates are a bonus that could be added to the pantry.

Unbreakable Clear Glassware Starter Set. Tableware that looks like crystal but won't break like it. This heavy walled tableware is nearly twice as thick as others. Lightweight, clear polycarbonate, the same material used to make bulletproof glass, endows each piece with the look and weight of crystal without the fragility. Nor will polycarbonate become cloudy or impart flavor as most plastics do. Microwave and dishwasher safe.

[american colleen]

LOL!

I love a Catholic with a good sense of humor! :-)

Seriously though... ever notice that orthodox Catholics are among the happiest and funniest people? We can be really ticked off about some issue in our parish or an issue similar to the issue in this thread and still get a kick out of it all. I've noticed this on different shows on EWTN and also out here in the trenches. Or am I being stupid and generalizing?