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To: the infidel
"I've already read one analysis by a Brian Mattson, and his analysis of Lewis Spitz (Spitz wrote, "[Luther] left the question of why some were lost open," to which Mattson calls "unfortunate") makes the case against himself. Judging one's words across milieus often leads to big misunderstandings"

This quote would support my contention that "official" Lutheran theology does not believe that men are predestined to condemnation -actively or passively.

This quote mentions Luther's position only with respect to the unregenerate. Furthermore, it doesn't state ~his~ position at all, only that ~he~ is willing to leave it an open issue. One can hold a specific position and at the same time one can hold that there is room for dissenting views on that opinion.

On the issue of the evidence of Luther's double predestination, see Double Or Nothing: Martin Luther's Doctrine of Predestination by Brian Mattson

Regards,

Jean

12 posted on 07/29/2003 7:08:19 AM PDT by Jean Chauvin ("Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." -God)
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To: Jean Chauvin
One can hold a specific position and at the same time one can hold that there is room for dissenting views on that opinion.

Yes, and this is why I'm tolerant to my reformed brethren. :-)

Let me briefly expand my remarks about the Mattson piece. I'm not sure I agree that Luther adopted all of Augustine's views so reflexively (and other scholars, as Mattson notes, don't either); I don't want to get into an "Augustine says, Luther says" discussion. Spitz was correct in noting that Luther leaves open the question of the lost since Luther avoids the subject throughout his writing, urging the Christian to look to Christ and the cross for a sign of their eternal security. As Matzat notes in his article, the doctrine of predestination was not central to Luther and he wrote about the mystery between divine election and universal grace, "We are not allowed to investigate, and even though you were to investigate much, yet you would never find out."

I'll consider your posts fully over the next couple days. I also want time to run over to the seminary library and check over a few things before responding more fully. Thanks for replying.

15 posted on 07/29/2003 10:01:57 AM PDT by the infidel
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