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Dear smevin,

Happy New Year!

"His rabid antisemitism isn't one tenth as vicious as the rabid anti-traditionalism found in many of those who profess the bonds of unity in worship with the Pope."

I disagree. First, Catholics reject your premise that ordinary Catholics show any animus to real traditionalists, at all. Here at FR, rather than animus between traditional Catholics, such as BlackElk and others, and folks who don't view themselves as traditionalists, like myself, you see warmth, understanding, embrace of each other, compassion, shared faith and hope, and love.

There is animus, sometimes, towards people who call themselves "traditionalists" but, to one degree or other, ally more with schism, especially the schism created by Archbishop Lefebvre, and perpetuated by his lackeys, Messrs. Fellay, Williamson, et. al.

A few of those legitimately opposed to schism, such as Stephen Hand, of the late TCRNews, went over the line in criticisms of those on the road to (or having arrived at the destination of) schism. Interestingly, the strongest rebukes he received here at FR came from folks like myself, who don't even count ourselves as "traditionalists".

But even the unlamented Mr. Hand was not nearly as vicious against those favoring the schism as Mr. Sungenis is in his antisemitism. Mr. Sungenis is sufficiently vicious as to make it unlikely that anyone could be 10 times as vicious as he about anything whatsoever.

What is most interesting, though, is that for us ordinary Catholics, and even traditionalist Catholics, the modestly-vicious Mr. Hand was sufficiently nasty as to wind up being rejected by us.

The wildly vicious Mr. Sungenis is, nonetheless, accepted warmly, in all his glorious anti-semitism and recent kookery (Oh, yes! Let us not forget that the sun revolves around the earth, and you are not a Catholic if you believe otherwise. Or so informs the sainted Mr. Sungenis.), by those near to or in schism.

But Catholicguy warned us many months ago that to scratch a schismatic is to uncover an anti-semite. Certainly, we have seen threads here at FR showing the warm embrace of anti-semitism by Mr. Williamson of the SSPX, and the mutual admiration between Mr. Williamson and professional Holocaust-denying anti-semites. While I doubt that absolutely everyone leaning toward, or in schism, is an anti-semite, recent discussions here at FR have shown those of us less-experienced with the schism that this isn't a bad generalization, as generalizations go.

Apparently, there are a number of folks near or in schism who believe Mr. Sungenis' cr*p about the Jews, who are Holocaust-deniers, etc.

Live and learn.

sitetest

<>My memory was just jogged. I remember smevin was defending this Canadian guy Zundel, the same guy that Bp. Williamson of the SSPX was praising. Ol' smevin never did get around telling us what praiewrothy aspects of Mr. Z's "work" it was that he admired<>

Dear smevin,

You questioned the veracity of the ADL site's reporting.

It reported that Mr. Zundel wrote a book called The Hitler We Loved and Why.

I posted a number of other items from the ADL site, including a couple of quotes from Mr. Zundel, which were more concerned about how evil are the Jews.

Are you saying that these things alleged by the ADL site about Mr. Zundel are false?

If not, then all you have done in your response to Catholicguy is assert an argument ad hominem. Which isn't really an argument at all. Why don't you address the facts?

Do you agree with Mr. Zundel in his love of Hitler? Do you agree with Mr. Zundel that the Jews "In exchange for these advantages, the Jews give us -- their White hosts -- wars, depressions, inflation, unemployment, energy shortages, higher and higher taxes and air piracy. Like sheep, they expect us to go down the road with them -- all the way to the kosher slaughterhouse."?

I'm just trying to find all the good things that Mr. Zundel has to say! Is this dreck some of it?

Do you denounce this dreck, or not? Here it is, smevin. You can either denounce this dreck, or we all know what you are. "Zundel has consistently questioned the number of Jews killed at Auschwitz. The numbers most often quoted by the mainstream press are between 6 and 9 million Jews killed at Auschwitz."

Nope. Get your falsehoods straight. The accurate facts are that Mr. Zundel's beloved, Mr. Hitler, killed approximately six million Jews throughout his entire campaign of extermination against them, not in Auschwitz. And roughly double that number, all told, of every sort of person, including the Jews.

You've been reading from your schismatic and Jew-hating friends so long that you no longer even are aware of the actual facts, as reported.

So, first, your Mr. Zundel, lies about what has been historically reported, and then he lies that the Holocaust was a hoax.

Is this the good stuff that Mr. Zundel has for you, smevin? Please let me know. So Mr. Zundel asserts that the Holocaust didn't happen, is that the good stuff?

So, smevin, are you a Holocaust denier? Because that is what Mr. Zundel is. He denies that Hitler planned to systematically make Europe Judenrein through the murder of the Jews. Are you denying this?

Are you denying that Pope Pius XII risked his own personal safety, and that of all Catholic priests in Europe to save over 700,000 Jews? I expect this from the Catholic-hating Protestants who slander the good name of Pope Pius. Do you now deny that Pope Pius XII had to risk nearly everything to save over 700,000 from the clutches of Zundel's beloved Hitler?

If you are unable to call this a malicious falsehood, if you are unable to completely reject Holocaust denial, then we all know what you are.

"If I questioned the number of people killed by Stalin, would you even bother responding? If I questioned the number of people killed by the communist Chinese government, would you respond and copy all of your cyber-buddies?"

You better believe, it buster. We have only rougher ideas about Stalin and Mao and friends. We believe that between them and their other commie buddies, they murdered and butchered, and starved, and otherwise killed around 200,000,000. If you said, "Well, I think it was only 150,000,000", I might not quibble long.

But the pig Zundel says only 300,000 Jews were killed by his beloved, Hitler.

That would be like saying that the communists killed only 10,000,000 people. If you were to assert that here and now, I'd probably call you a marxist commie pig apologist.

If you are asserting that Zundel is anywhere near close in his assertion that his beloved, Hitler, murdered only 300,000 Jews, then I don't really need to say what you are. You will then be exposed for all to see.

So tell me, smevin, what are all the good things that your Mr. Zundel has to say??

Enquiring minds want to know.

sitetest

90 posted on 12/20/2002 10:32 PM EST by sitetest

But Catholicguy warned us many months ago that to scratch a schismatic is to uncover an anti-semite.

Wow. That's laughable. You're entire Big C orgainization is spawn from the anti-semitism of Constantine.

Show where Sungenis has ever denied the Holocaust. Put up or shut up. This is a ridiculous slander--as is your attack on those who attend Mass at traditional chapels of the SSPX. Traditionalists are Catholics fed up with the crap of the last forty years, that is all--and we have the honesty to admit that Archbishop Lefebvre was right in his estimate of the Church's condition and that Pope John Paul II was wrong and continues to be wrong, leading his Church down a hellish road paved with supposedly good intentions. It is the usual neo-Catholic smear to say SSPX traditionalists are either anti-Semitic or schismatic.