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To: vmatt
Are you saying that only THEY recieved the clothing of life and we do not until we die?

I do not believe that is possible.

Joh 5:24 - Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

We both know that for them, even believing did not bring this about until His return and 2 Cor 5:4 happened.

But isn't this something we recieve instantly at the point of belief?

John 11:24 Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 11:26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Again, for them this was not reality until AD 70.

But isn't it reality for us at the point of belief?

That was the point of the New Covenant consumation!! Now we do not have to wait as Paul and them did for our "mortal to be further clothed with life." (2 Cor 5:4)
We HAVE attained the promise of this New Covenant.

This is why even though the "parousia" was for them, it brought in "everlasting righteousness" (Daniel 9:24) for all, forever (Eph 3:21).
15 posted on 04/10/2002 4:25:07 PM PDT by nate4one
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To: nate4one
Are you saying that only THEY recieved the clothing of life and we do not until we die? I do not believe that is possible.

Remember, they were the bride of Christ and the firstfruits. No one up until they were clothed upon with immortality had attained to everlasting life under the new covenant Christ purchased with his blood. Once they were married to Christ, all was fulfilled and the New Jerusalem became a reality and the Kingdom of God is now with us. They set the standard if you will. When Jesus said "believe on him and you shall never die" this is what he meant, not all men but the firstfruits. Rest assuredly, we today will all die physically.

But isn't it reality for us at the point of belief?

This is an interesting question and one that I have wanted to address but had little opportunity until now. What is "believe" in this sense? Did not Judas "believe"? The two who lied about the price of their land, did they "believe"? Did not those who chose to remain in their high seats in the synogogues of Satan after meeting with Christ where they could not be seen of others "believe"? Of course, belief is nothing in and of itself. The devils believe and tremble! Look carefully at these verses.

Matthew 17:16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.

17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Now notice at the time Christ upraided them for their unbelief, were they not believers in a sense? There are other instances of them being upraided for unbelief. Also, please note that fasting once again is mentioned and I have been trying to make you see it's importance and here is an instance where prayer alone, without fasting would not have been successful. Also Paul taught them to defraud not one another except for a time that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer. This one's for you, Nate!

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

I have spoken in these tongues because I believed. The only thing stopping anyone from fulfillment in Christ is unbelief.

17 posted on 04/11/2002 7:09:23 AM PDT by vmatt
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