[Campion]

I think it's amazing (amazingly sad, that is), that you think yourself competent to judge another person's salvation based only off the datapoint that he's a Catholic.

So all Catholics are "lost," in your view?

[ealgeone]

Due to the departure from Scripture on so many areas Roman Catholicism is not Nee Testament Christianity. The Immaculate Conception is but one proof of that departure.

[ealgeone]

And recall, prior to V2, Roman Catholicism considered everyone else to be heretics.

[daniel1212]

To: ealgeone I think it's amazing (amazingly sad, that is), that you think yourself competent to judge another person's salvation based only off the datapoint that he's a Catholic. So all Catholics are "lost," in your view?

One cannot say for certain only off the datapoint that he's one of the relative few Catholic. I myself surmise, as a former weekly and holy day mass-going RC, and altar boy, CCD teacher and lector - the latter after I actually became manifestly born of the Spirit thru penitent, heart-purifying, regenerating effectual faith in crucified and risen Lord Jesus, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9) and has since personally spoken to (or tried to) thousands of Catholics in the US, that only about 1% here have experienced Biblical regeneration, thus presently being saved. Likewise liberal Prots, while maybe 60% of those identifying as evangelical or "born again" actually are so, or die as such.

One need not know much to be saved, (Ps. 34:18) as lack of conviction that one needs to be saved, and thus effectually repent and believe, is the main obstacle to conversion. Which RCs are not challenged to do so after infant (usually) baptism, being henceforth treated as children of God, under the false premise that the act itself of baptism effected regeneration, which rendered them good enough at that time to actually be with God in Heaven, and with Purgatory (usually) later getting them into shape to once again be able to actually enter Heaven.

Such is tragically the false gospel and false hope of the vast majority of Catholics, whose trust is in their church and or their own merits for salvation, under the rubric of God's grace.

* In the Bible, one is saved by penitent, heart-purifying, regenerating effectual faith, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9) in the risen Divine Lord Jesus, who was sent by the Father to be the savior of the world. (1 John 4:14) who did everything Right, but then took responsibility for all we did Wrong, paying the price the forgiveness of our sin with His own sinless shed blood. (Isaiah 53:4–11; Luke 24:47; Luke 24:47; Col. 1:14)

* And 3 days later then rose and ascended to His Father in Heaven as Lord of all, and thus enabling regeneration (John 7:37, 38; 14:24,25; 16:7) when one essentially believes as described above. (Acts 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13; Titus 3:5)

* And which effectual faith is imputed for righteousness, (Romans 4:5) and results in following the Lord, (Jn. 10:27, 28; Romans 8:14) which is to formally begin with being baptized (Acts 2:38-47; 8:12,36,37)

* And by which faith the redeemed soul is "accepted in the Beloved" and positionally seated with Him in Heaven, on His account, glory to God. (Ephesians 1:6; 2:6; cf. Phil. 3:21)

* And those who die in that obedient faith will go to be forever with Him at death or His return, at "the first resurrection," (Revelation 20:5) “the resurrection of life, ” (Jn. 5:29a) "of the just." (Luke 14:14) For wherever Scripture clearly speak of the next conscious reality for those who die in that effectual faith then it is with the Lord, at death or His return (whatever comes first), by the grace of God. (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17)

In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39)

* And which believers will go with the Lord Jesus to the battle of Armageddon, “ (Jude 14-15; cf. Revelation 19:14) and also (after His return) stand before “the judgment seat of Christ” which is only for believers, and who will be judged as to rewards or loss thereof due their manner of workmanship in building the body of Christ, the church. (Lk. 14:14; cf. 1Cor. 3:8ff; 4:5; Acts 24:15)

* And who then be rulers under Christ in His literal 1,000 year reign: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:6)

* After which the “great and notable day of the Lord” ‘ (Acts 2:20) culminates in the Great White Throne judgment, with “the resurrection of damnation” (Jn. 5:29b) and their judgment which occurs 1,000 years after “the first resurrection” (Rv. 20:6) the “resurrection of life, (”(Jn. 5:29a) and in which judgment believers will be part of the jury in the judgment of men and angels (1 Corinthians 6:3)

* In which the dead are judged out of those things which were written in the books, and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire, (Rv. 20:11-5) with their degree of punishment being determined in accordance with how much light and grace was given. (Lk. 10:12-13; 12:47,48)

[metmom]

I think it's amazing (amazingly sad, that is), that you think yourself competent to judge another person's salvation based only off the datapoint that he's a Catholic. So all Catholics are "lost," in your view?

And the irony of you, a Catholic, complaining about that is not lost on anyone but Catholics.

Catholics themselves think they are competent to another's salvation based on the fact that they are NOT Catholic.

The hypocrisy of your comment is staggering.

[metmom]

I think it's amazing (amazingly sad, that is), that you think yourself competent to judge another person's salvation based only off the datapoint that he's a Catholic.

Likewise.....

I think it's amazing (amazingly sad, that is), that you think yourself competent to judge another person's salvation based only off the datapoint that he's NOT a Catholic, which Catholics do ALL the time here on FR.

We are continually told that we must join ourselves to the *one true church* through baptism and eat Jesus to be saved, otherwise, it's off to hell with you, you heretic.

[metmom]

I think it's amazing (amazingly sad, that is), that you think yourself competent to judge another person's salvation based only off the datapoint that he's a Catholic. So all Catholics are "lost," in your view?

According to official Catholic doctrine and hundreds of years of teaching, all non-Catholics are lost.

I don't see any other "Protestant" religion that makes it a part of their official statement of faith that if you don't join their specific denomination or church you are bound for hell as Catholicism teaches about those outside of it.

Even in the Catechism of the Catholic church is the sub heading of *Outside the Church there is no salvation.*

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

Just for the record, JESUS is the door. The Catholic religion is again trying to usurp Christ in salvation by inserting itself between the individual and Christ.