Posted on 02/08/2023 7:32:13 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Christians who once identified as homosexual have mixed opinions about recent remarks made by Pastor Andy Stanley, in which the megachurch leader said that LGBT individuals who go to church have “more faith than a lot of you.”
Last month, a short clip of Stanley was posted on Twitter in which he said “a gay person who still wants to attend church after the way the church has treated the gay community, I'm telling you, they have more faith than I do. They have more faith than a lot of you.”
“A gay person who knows, 'You know what? I might not be accepted here, but I'm going to try it anyway,' have you ever done that as a straight person? Where do you go that you're not sure you're going to be accepted and you go over and over and over?” Stanley asked in the viral clip.
Stanley acknowledged that there were verses in the Bible that condemned homosexuality, but then added, “oh my goodness, a gay man or woman who wants to worship their heavenly Father, who did not answer the cry of their heart when they were 12 and 13 and 14 and 15. God said, 'No,' and they still love God?”
"We have some things to learn from a group of men and women who love Jesus that much and who want to worship with us," he continued. "I know the verses; I know the clobber passages, right? We got to figure this out. And you know what? I think you are.”
Christopher Doyle, a professional counselor and executive director of the Institute for Healthy Families, told The Christian Post that, because the full sermon is not easily accessible online, Stanley’s “words leave me with more questions than answers.”
“I appreciate Pastor Stanley's compassion for Christians struggling with sexual and gender identity. As a young man, I experienced unwanted same-sex attractions and having a safe place surrounded by loving, embracing Christians would have really helped me on my healing journey,” said Doyle.
“Stanley is also correct that LGBT-identified Christians have been unfairly marginalized in the Body of Christ, and, indeed, we certainly have a lot to learn from these sensitive souls. In my experience, they are creative, artistic, and mercy-driven individuals with amazing character qualities, and historically, the church has used Scripture [as Stanley said] to ‘clobber’ them instead of appreciating and loving the whole person.”
Nevertheless, Doyle also told CP that it's “important to recognize we are all sexually broken and in need of emotional, relational and spiritual healing,” adding that “the Gospel remains the same and calls us to pursue righteousness.”
“Is Pastor Stanley challenging his entire congregation to pursue holiness and righteousness or providing a seeker-friendly environment with a watered-down Gospel?” Doyle asked.
“In my personal experience as a sexually broken Christian man and my professional experience as a counselor walking with believers pursuing healing, holiness and righteousness can only come with a renewing of the mind and a sanctification of the heart.”
Stephen Black, an author and executive director of First Stone Ministries, told CP that he believed Stanley’s remarks showed that his church has “a terrible theology based in psychology rather than an actual biblical theology.”
“Stanley is filled with such corrupt theology that he believes ‘gay’ and other corrupt identities are legitimate,” said Black. “This is not a biblical worldview.”
“Andy Stanley repeatedly communicates ‘gay people’ as a legitimate identity given to this modern culture over the last 100 years from psychology and the American Psychological Association legitimizing corrupt human sexual desires as orientations.”
Black believed that it was “important for sincere Bible-believing Christians who have a saving faith to pay attention to what leaders like Stanley are really communicating in their nuanced words.”
“Simply said, people like Stanley are filled with unbelief concerning the transforming grace of God,” he continued. “They are telling on themselves that they have a terrible theology of easy-believism that does not require real change or repentant life that endures to the end.”
Black drew a parallel to the ministry known as Revoice, a Christian ministry that, while adhering to the belief that homosexuality is sinful, garnered controversy in theologically conservative circles for its embrace of ideas like Christians being able to identify as LGBT.
“Stanley and leaders like him in Revoice are communicating a psychological worldview,” Black added. “They believe more in the orientation narrative and belief structures of the APA than they do Holy Scriptures.”
“We need to pray that Andy Stanley and other Revoice leaders come into the full revelation of Jesus resulting in righteousness, a saving faith with a confessed life, and living out repentance. I know hundreds of ex-homosexuals who are living out a life without labels and are found in Jesus Christ alone.”
Nobody demands Christians embrace theft, therefore chronic thieves don't hear us talk about than sin much. The same with other sins like lying or even heterosexual hedonism -- we're not forced to embrace them therefore we don't argue against them as vocally.
LGBT people only want one thing and it’s not Religion
The issue of homosexuality has never seemed to be a main focus of any sermon or bible study I have attended. When it is brought up at all it is simply as an example of one of the ways in which fallen human kind has become sinful.
On the other hand when I have been among those who were woke and who did not know I was not woke I have heard the assumption that all Christians were like the West Borough Babtist Church.
Love the sinner, hate the sin....................
LGBT individuals who go to church have “more faith than a lot of you.”
Insert the words "drug addict," "wife beater," "porn watcher," or "bank robber" where they say "LGBT" - and would they dare say such stupid things?
Pastor Stanley wants to tap into a new revenue source for his “mega church”.
Another “Church” that needs to be taxed.
“Faith” or just gumption??
“they have more faith than I do”
So he’s admitting that he has less faith than an unrepentant sinner. Seems like he should retire as a pastor if that’s the case.
Good point.
I’ve never heard a sermon or any long homily where the whole point is about homos.
It’s simply part of doctrine.
Of course, in this day and age, where almost all churches are apostate, I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re lectured about how we have to be nice. Just like libs everywhere condescendingly lecture and slander us.
(I don’t go to church in long time - and far too many are apostate that I’m afraid to.)
(BTW, it’s Westboro BC.)
They just don’t want to give up their sinful lifestyles, thinking they can be in both kingdoms at the same time.
Well, I guess that’s what you get when you develop a church of the personality, which is mostly what “megachurches” are. And not many of them have any real training.
Jesus denounced those who put conditions on their willingness to follow Him, like the young man who was close to the Kingdom, but couldn’t part with his wealth, or the man who asked for leave to bury his parents before becoming a disciple. We are all guilty of this to some extent, but in this case, gays are saying, “I like what you’re saying, but just let me keep this one little sin.”
Pastor Stanley inventing his own theology.
Probably sees himself standing in place of Lot, and welcoming those poor mistreated LGBT souls into his home to demonstrate God’s love and compassion.
Certainly, he would have never criticized them for acting on their passions. Certainly, Stanley would have understand they were to be encouraged to be true to themselves.
FR: Never Accept the Premise of Your Opponent’s Argument
The Holy Spirit led Paul to write in 1 Corinthians 6:9, warning believers against same-sex sexual relationships in that passage, saying "do not be deceived" about such things.
The Spirit also led both Paul and Peter to warn Christians to be on guard against people who distort the scriptures, Paul in Galatians 1:6-9, Peter in 2 Peter 3:16.
Andy Stanley obviously missed the entire part of the Gospel messages where Jesus spoke of the wheat and the tares.
For Pete’s (i.e., St. Peter’s) sake. If you were born in a garage would that make you a car (or a lawnmower)?
The notion that everyone who attends church at Andy Stanley’s place is a Bible-believing Christian is Biblically unsupportable IMO.
I am secular but this is a clear case of blasphemous utterance
Christians always get into trouble when they try to justify their sin.
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