Sorry, Anglicans, There Is No Third Way on the Issue of Same-Sex Marriage

American Conservative ^ | 01/23/2023 | Rod Dreher

[SeekAndFind]

I received not long ago an e-mail from a reader who says that her Methodist congregation is in the midst of a conversation about whether or not to disaffiliate from the United Methodist Church over gay marriage. The reader shared the arguments for both sides in her moderately conservative congregation, and asked what I thought. Looking at her list of "stay" arguments, I saw a bunch of propositions that were either deceptive (self-deceptive?) or wishful thinking. The stay argument, as she presents it, amounts to this:

If we leave, we will be breaking fellowship with a national organization that has been good to us, and we will side with the closed-minded who are unwelcoming to diverse points of view. We want to stay open to all. Besides, we have been told by state leaders that they will respect our congregational autonomy, and will do their best to send us pastors who are a good fit for our more conservative congregation.

I told the reader that this is all eyewash, whether the proponents of that argument realize it or not. I don't know that congregation, of course, but I can imagine that at least some of the conservatives are not at all ideological.

When I was growing up in a Methodist church in the 1970s and early 1980s, you could call it conservative, but its conservatism had almost nothing to do with doctrine or politics, and everything to do with the fact that the congregation cherished stability, and wanted things to stay the same. I went through a brief period of Evangelical intensity when I was twelve and thirteen, and asked my mom to take me to worship at the local Baptist church, which I believed took doctrine more seriously.

[SeekAndFind]

The Church of England is still trying to find it, though. The Church's bishops recently said no to gay marriage, but yes to providing a rite of blessing for same-sex couples. It's not going to work, as Carl Trueman explains in his latest column.

This is relevant to the debate here in the US, within the churches. We have seen that political conservatism is becoming far more tolerant of LGBT than it has been, with now a bare majority of Republican voters approving of same-sex marriage. These numbers are only going to increase as older GOP voters die off. Even within churches that are conservative, there will be pressure to moderate the Biblical teaching -- if not to change it, then to de-emphasize it.

Many conservative pastors don't ever talk about the issue, or about sex at all, to avoid controversy. But they're not going to be able to avoid it forever. What happens when the gay son or daughter of a prominent family in the church wants to get married there? Over the past twenty years, so many conservatives, even Christians, have flipped on the issue when one of their children came out as gay. With the general sense in society moving steadily towards the normalization of homosexuality, even among people on the Right, it is unrealistic to think that conservative churches can avoid having to deal forthrightly with the question.

Given that few GOP politicians have found the courage or the cleverness to defend traditional marriage in the public square over the past twenty years, we can expect more and more conservatives, both in politics and in leadership positions in civil society, to embrace "progressive pieties glossed with a traditionalist veneer."

In fact, Archbishop Elpidophoros, the head of the Greek Orthodox Church in the US, got into trouble last year when he went to Greece and baptized the children of a gay couple, one-half of whom is the son of a rich Greek family from Chicago.

[FlyingEagle]

It is like a spouse trying to rationalize staying in an abusive shame filled marriage.

It is called a trauma bond.

She only beats me at night when she is drinking.

She wants an open marriage and I should be more tolerant when she sleeps with others.

I should doormat myself to honor her new open thinking.

[FlyingEagle]

One does not vote on whether a sin is a sin or not.

The moral Christian life is not a topic up for referendum.

It is very clearly spelled out in scacred scripture.

[Tell It Right]

I hate referring to the new Global Methodist Conference as "conservative" because, as the writer pointed out, it could be confused with political conservatism.

IMHO Methodist leaders in the new conference should call it the Holiness conference or something like that in honor of John Wesley's and the early Methodist leaders' role in pushing forward the Holiness Movement (living holy lives for Christ even though we're saved by grace).

[Ikeon]

If we leave, we will be breaking fellowship with a national organization that has been good to us, and we will side with the closed-minded who are unwelcoming to diverse points of view

i had no idea the Bible was open to diverse points of view.

IOW, this person finds the reason to stay is because the Bible is too strict for her on the definition of sin! .

[Babba Gi]

At least if you’re orthodox, you know who owns the building.

[usconservative]

i had no idea the Bible was open to diverse points of view.

They're called sinners. We all are.

The difference is those who don't "spin" the Bible know right from wrong, ask for forgiveness and try again to live according to God's will.

[blueplum]

“on other issues—most recently the ordination of women—”

one cannot compare the ordination of women with acceeptance of LGBT. The rule about women was a creation of Paul, and was/is contrary to The Almighty’s word, the most notable example being Deborah = Judges 4:4-5.

Paul tries to justify his own opinion by referring back to Adam and Eve. Remembering that Adam was told about The Fruit before Eve was created, and to borrow a paragraph:
“Some scholars say that we should continue Paul’s policy because he supports his policy by referring to the biblical story of sin in the Garden of Eden: “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (2:14). It is hard to follow the logic of this. If Adam was not deceived, then he sinned deliberately, out of rebellion rather than ignorance. It is difficult to argue that men should be in charge because the first man was a deliberate rebel. “
https://www.gci.org/articles/women-pastors/

[Paperpusher]

We have seen that political conservatism is becoming far more tolerant of LGBT than it has been, with now a bare majority of Republican voters approving of same-sex marriage.

Half the Pubbies and 75% of the Dims have no idea of what they are approving. Even children’s TV programming is pushing LGBT. M and M candy just introduced lesbian M&M candy, but at least the backlash was monumental. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11610317/M-Ms-launches-woke-female-special-edition-bag-candy-featuring-lesbian-green-brown.html

[SauronOfMordor]

and we will side with the closed-minded who are unwelcoming to diverse points of view.

Tell them that in Christianity, the only point of view which matters is Christ's, and that it is the duty of each Christian to discover what that is and align with it.

My guess is that this woman won't like being told that.

[DeplorablePaul]

I was on the vestry of an Episcopalian church back in the 80s when the gay take over began. The next thing you know we had female lesbian priests and basically pagan services. Talk about sin and redemption was banned. The congregation was largely composed of seniors who did not resist.
When I moved to SC, I joined an Anglican church that broke off from the Episcopalians over the gay issue. It has an evangelical bent, a large, prosperous congregation and a school. Sermons are often about sin and redemption. Conservative churches can attract a faithful congregation.
Church of the Cross, Bluffton SC