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To: Morgana

As much as the SBC has apostatized over the past decade, this “report” should be viewed with a skeptical eye. It is ax grinding writ large. Also, The SBC is NOT a centralized organization, with all authority emanating from the top, which dictates policy and accountability to affiliated church bodies, like the Roman Church. It is decidedly decentralized. How, then, could an affiliated org be held accountable?


4 posted on 05/22/2022 10:03:35 PM PDT by fwdude (Every time I see someone voluntarily masked in public, I know I'm looking at a vaccinated person.)
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To: fwdude; All

I’ve heard there had been trouble in the sbc for a long time. Just chatter. Also a lot of complaints they are going liberal. Back in the 70s and 80’s they were hard core conservative now they have gone the other way some have complained. I’ve heard chatter of sex abuse too.

then this story broke tonight. this is not good.


5 posted on 05/22/2022 10:08:47 PM PDT by Morgana ( Always a bit of truth in dark humor. )
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To: fwdude

So it’s horrid when it happened in the Roman Catholic Church but should not be believed or marginalized when it happened in the Southern Baptist Convention?


8 posted on 05/22/2022 10:18:21 PM PDT by MDLION (J"Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:)
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To: fwdude

These are less than 3% of southern Baptist pastors.
This is about the same as the number catholic priesrs accusdd namely 2%.

You can’t blame all Catholic priests or Southern Baptist pastors for the sins of 3%


11 posted on 05/22/2022 10:32:08 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: fwdude

How about the elders did nothing when informed of such abuse. No defrocking just reassignment


13 posted on 05/22/2022 10:42:38 PM PDT by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: fwdude

Because they made themselves accountable. That’s the import of this report. They had the ability to warn individual parishes about abuse, and they instead chose to claim they had no say, when of course, they hardly would’ve needed to assert nonexisting ownership authority to get the local parish to reject the applications of known sex offenders.

Don’t get me wrong: it’d be an interesting legal case. But morally? They make the Catholic bishops look like saints.

The Catholic bishops’ great crime was that they ignored their own doctrine (the Nicene Council and a 1962 document from Pope John XXIII demanded “those who scandalize children” to be cast out of the Church), and instead looked to secular psychologists, who told them that pedophilia was a curable mental illness. So they’d send the priests off to therapy retreats, and when the secular psychologists said the priests were “cured,” they’d send them off to a new parish, just like every other priest. When this scheme didn’t work, and the abuse continued, and they bishops realized that juries were holding them accountable, they behaved to the victims like they were utterly ignorant of any potential harm.

The Southern Baptist Convention could have learned from the Catholics’ experience to avoid abuse. Given a choice between preventing abuse or feigning ignorance, they chose to feign ignorance.


25 posted on 05/23/2022 4:03:28 AM PDT by dangus (I had some sympathies for some of Russia's positions... until they started a G-d-damned war.)
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To: fwdude; ConservativeMind; ealgeone; Mark17; BDParrish; fishtank; boatbums; Luircin; mitch5501; ...
"As much as the SBC has apostatized over the past decade, this “report” should be viewed with a skeptical eye. It is ax grinding writ large. Also, The SBC is NOT a centralized organization, with all authority emanating from the top, which dictates policy and accountability to affiliated church bodies, like the Roman Church. It is decidedly decentralized. How, then, could an affiliated org be held accountable?"

The SBS suffers from lack of centralized leadership, but the report here is mainly over leadership's response at the EC committee level. Below are excerpts o this length report:

Because the SBC is not a church, it has no role in ordaining pastors.27 Both initial ordination and recognition of previous ordination are addressed on a local church level.28 Every cooperating church decides individually whether or not to ordain an individual, or whether to require ordination of its pastor or ministry staff.29 The SBC does have the right to determine whether local churches are considered “in friendly cooperation” with the SBC – in other words, whether a specific local church is remaining in good standing with the SBC.30 To be deemed in friendly cooperation, a church must: (1) have a faith and practice which closely identifies with the SBC’s adopted statement of faith, (2) formally approve its intention to cooperate with the SBC, (3) make financial contributions through the Cooperative Program, the SBC’s Executive Committee or Convention causes, or any other Convention entity during the fiscal year preceding, (4) not act in a manner inconsistent with the Convention’s beliefs regarding sexual abuse (emphasis added); and (5) not act to affirm, approve, or endorse discriminatory behavior on the basis of ethnicity.31
In connection with the new amendment, an EC committee – the Credentials Committee (“CC”) – was tasked with considering issues of whether a church is “in friendly cooperation” under Article III.37 ..According to the SBC Bylaws, the CC is to consider the matter of whether a church is in friendly cooperation with the Convention, review any information available to it, and make inquires of a church.38 If the CC forms the opinion that a church is not in friendly cooperation, the CC submits a report to the EC stating the CC’s reasons for its opinion.39...The SBC is under the direction of the Messengers, i.e., the representatives of local churches that cooperate with the SBC.43 The Messengers convene once a year at a two-33 day meeting in June.44 At the annual meeting, or convention, the Messengers confer and determine the officers, programs, policies, and budget of the Convention.45 The Messengers elect the officers of the SBC, including the President, 1st and 2nd Vice Presidents, Recording Secretary, and Registration Secretary.46 The term of office for the SBC president is limited to two consecutive one-year terms, and a president is not eligible for re-election until as much as one year has elapsed from the time a successor is named.47
Because the Messengers are so numerous and meet only once per year, the day-to-day functioning of the SBC is managed by the EC, the “fiduciary, the fiscal, and executive entity of the Convention.”48 According to the SBC, the EC does not control or direct the activities of Convention entities, although it reviews their financial statements and recommends the Convention annual operating budget.55...There is currently no individual designated for Human Resources, so Finance handles HR matters under their oversight of EC staff payroll and benefits. In addition, there is no designated General Counsel or Chief Compliance/Integrity Officer in the current organizational structure....
36 Directors of church relations and mobilization for Hispanics, Asian Americans, African Americas and other church affiliations. The Communications office houses Baptist Press, the convention news service, as well as general convention communications. The Finance office is responsible for finance, annual meeting/events planning, information technology, and facilities. The Chief Financial Officer is the head of the Finance office. There is currently no individual designated for Human Resources, so Finance handles HR matters under their oversight of EC staff payroll and benefits. In addition, there is no designated General Counsel or Chief Compliance/Integrity Officer in the current organizational structure. The EC is not presently operating with a full staff due to resignations and staff changes since 2021. According to the up-to-date EC Staff Directory on the SBC.net website, the organizational structure is as follows: the President’s Office includes the Interim President and CEO with three supporting staff members; Communications includes a Vice President and ten supporting staff members; Finance includes an Interim CFO with five supporting staff members; and Great Commission Relations and Mobilization has a vacancy in the Vice President position, but has five supporting staff members.63 In total, there are currently 26 EC staff members compared to 31 EC staff positions reflected on the December 2021 organization chart. The EC also has the responsibility to conduct the general work of promotion and publicity for the Convention in cooperation with the entities.64 The EC manages and funds Baptist Press, which provides the convention news service to interpret and publicize the stories of Southern Baptists in order to keep the more than 47,000 autonomous churches, 41 state conventions, 1,114 local associations and over 14 million members, connected and informed. In addition to the EC, as described above, the SBC undertakes its work through 11 other ministry entities, as well as an auxiliary called the Woman’s Missionary Union.65
In this section, we lay out a chronology of the EC’s response to sexual abuse issues from January 1, 2000, to June 14, 2021. We cannot and do not describe in detail every EC action or communication; rather, this timeline aims to provide a concise yet comprehensive account of the EC’s conduct over those two decades. ... 40 Thus, the EC’s response to sexual abuse allegations over the years was largely driven by a small cadre of staff as well as the SBC’s long-serving outside lawyers, whose senior positions and institutional knowledge allowed them to control the information about, and management of, issues related to sexual abuse at SBC churches

29 posted on 05/23/2022 4:22:26 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him who saves, be baptized + follow Him!)
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