Yeah... yeah... yeah... pass the blame and the buck. You never addressed the comment I made back. Funny you recite the Bible as if the Bible was God’s own words. Yet when doing a history of the Bible we see that GOD never wrote the Bible, a collection of men wrote it. On top of all of that, it was man who decided what the Bible contains, not God.
So come at me all you want, but until you have God’s words from God himself, the Bible is nothing more than a history book like an author writing about George Washington in the year 2020. Neither was there to witness first hand the accounts of the deeds.
Come at me with first hand accounts not drivel from a history book.
Never said I was against Free Will. I originally talked about predetermination. That is something totally different than free will. If something is predetermined then the outcome from all the Free Will choices will be the same. And that is where I lose you because you conflate Free will - the choice - with predetermination - the outcome. So you will continue to argue we all have a choice but according to the Bible there is only two outcomes (three really). You either go to Heaven or you go to Hell. The third is purgatory in some circles. This is predetermination. All the choices that you freely make make, Free Will, then leads you to an outcome that has been predetermined.
I won’t argue about Free Will because Free Will and predetermination are not one in the same. You can if you want but you might be better served beating an old rug because you will get more out of it.”___Zaxtres
__________
Zaxtres,
* Thank you for your comments.
* The Bible IS God’s words.
* 2 timothy 3:16-17 says that all Scripture is
God-breathed and is therefore useful for teaching
and preaching and for many other good purposes.
{1} the Holy Scriptures
{2} can make you wise for salvation
{3} which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
{4} all Scripture is useful for:
{5} teaching
{6} rebuking
{7} correcting
{8} training in righteousness
{9} so that the man of God
{10} may be equipped for every god work
* Relax. Nobody is “coming at you.”
* Purgatory is nonsesne. Its a man made doctrine.
There is not a shred of Biblical evidence to
support the notion of Purgatory.
* Yes, I am aware that you did NOT say there was
any Biblical evidence for Purgatory.
* This debate about Free Will has been going on
for some 2000 years and is nowhere near being
settled.
* This debate is not going to be settled here in this thread.
* We can both make our points.
* Perhaps our points will be a blessing to some human being somewhere. I hope so.
* You say you will not argue about Free Will.
* Okay.
* Nonetheless, here is a point for you: Joshua told the
people “choose you this day whom you will serve.”
That’s Free Will
* John 3:16 presents all people with a Free Will choice:
{1} Choose to perish
or
{2} Choose Eternal Life
Again Free Will.
* “Behold I stand at the door and knock”___The Lord Jesus
This again is Free Will.
This presents you with a choice:
{1} Choose to open the door
or
{2} Choose to refuse to open the door.
* Whatever you mean by your word “predetermined” it will
NOT ever , , no NEVER eliminate Free Will.
* Free Will is here to stay.
* Not gonna ever be able to escape from Free Will.
Best To You Zaxtres
JAG
No the Bible is NOT God’s words. You been lied to starting from the Council of Nicene. A council made up of men who decided what to put into the Bible. If it were God’s words, the Bible would not be the size that it is. The Bible is a written collection of oral stories passed down from generation to generation. The New Testament is not even written by the authors that are of the Book that they represent. They are the accounts of the Disciples. It is a history book, nothing more.
Again you use the words of the Bible to prove the Bible. That is a circular fallacy. And that is where you lose the argument.
Again not arguing Free Will because you conflate the two.
John 3:16 presents all people with a Free Will choice:
These are outcomes not choices. Why only two outcomes if it is not predetermined.
{1} Choose to perish
or
{2} Choose Eternal Life
Again Free Will.
Again you conflate choice with outcome. Why can I not choose either, because the outcome has already been decided for me. That is predetermination. Christianity and the like are considered predetermination religions. I choose neither to perish nor eternal life. Now what? What is my outcome?