When plague in Italy killed 1.5 million people in a single year ~ Saint Frances of Rome and the Plague of 1656

Gloria Romanorum ^ | March 9, 2020 | Florentius

[aMorePerfectUnion]

No Christian, now or then, has ever equated the saints with "lower gods".

Romanism did this to dear Mary and departed saints, imbuing them with titles and powers never found in Scripture.

Catholicism has a whole pantheon of demi-gods and demi-goddesses. Mary the highest ranked.

Guys who follow the teachings of those who had new "truths" revealed to them 1,500 years...

I follow what God actually said, unlike Rome.

So, you still haven't posted a single verse where someone actually prayed to a departed saint.

[Antoninus]

Catholicism has a whole pantheon of demi-gods and demi-goddesses. Mary the highest ranked.

No Catholic has ever said that. It is an invention of those who broke away from the Church 1,500 years after it was founded.

I follow what God actually said, unlike Rome.

No, you follow the novel interpretations of those dudes from the 16th century.

So, you still haven't posted a single verse where someone actually prayed to a departed saint.

Proof texting is pointless as you do not accept the interpretations of the early Church, but prefer those of the 16th century revolutionaries.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“ No Catholic has ever said that.

I don’t blame you for keeping the truth unsaid. It is embarrassing to be pagan.

“ Proof texting is pointless as you do not accept the interpretations of the early Church, but prefer those of the 16th century revolutionaries.

Again, when what you believe isn’t in the whole NT, it’s embarrassing to post anything - But I asked and you found no example of ant apostle praying to a departed saint.

You’d think a seeker of truth might ask why... or change his beliefs to what God declared.

[Antoninus]

I don’t blame you for keeping the truth unsaid. It is embarrassing to be pagan.

Sure. But you'd call the Church Fathers pagans as well, so there's that.

You’d think a seeker of truth might ask why... or change his beliefs to what God declared.

If you were a seeker of truth, you'd discard the ridiculous teachings of the 16th century charlatans and seek out how the Fathers of the Church interpreted Sacred Scripture.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“ But you’d call the Church Fathers pagans as well, so there’s that.”

Any church father who prayed to saints was engaging in a pagan practice, not found in Scripture.

Still waiting for you to show just one example of an Apostle practicing, of teaching, prayer to anyone but God.

“Where’s the beef??”

[ealgeone]

>>Catholicism has a whole pantheon of demi-gods and demi-goddesses. Mary the highest ranked.<<

No Catholic has ever said that. It is an invention of those who broke away from the Church 1,500 years after it was founded.

Of course no Roman Catholic would use those terms....but that is what has happened.

[metmom]

No Catholic has ever said that. It is an invention of those who broke away from the Church 1,500 years after it was founded.

That which we call a rose by any other name.......

Considering the powers ascribed to them by Catholicism, that is what, in fact, they are.

Relabeling them doesn't change that any more than Catholicism relabeling divorce or contraception makes it any different than what it truly is.

The big problem is, Catholics generally cannot see the duplicity as they have been raised in it and steeped in it usually from birth, and they are threatened with eternal damnation for opposing the church leadership.

The indoctrination is complete.

[Antoninus]

To: Antoninus; aMorePerfectUnion; caww; Iscool; MHGinTN; imardmd1; Tennessee Nana; Mom MD; boatbums;...

Ah, it was only a matter of time before you did that. The rule seems to be, whenever someone puts forth the teachings of the ancient Church over those of the 16th century noob theology, call out the cavalry.

[Antoninus]

Of course no Roman Catholic would use those terms....but that is what has happened.

I love it when those who are ignorant not only of Church history but of Roman history make these claims. Saint Augustine, who was both a Roman and a Christian (not to mention one of the most brilliant men who ever lived) seemed to know the difference. Have you read his work, Contra Faustum? In this work, Faustus the Manichæan makes exactly the same argument you do, saying:

"The sacrifices you change into love-feasts, the idols into martyrs, to whom you pray as they do to their idols. You appease the shades of the departed with wine and food. You keep the same holidays as the Gentiles; for example, the calends and the solstices. In your way of living you have made no change."

Augustine replied: "It is true that Christians pay religious honor to the memory of the martyrs, both to excite us to imitate them and to obtain a share in their merits, and the assistance of their prayers. But we build altars not to any martyr, but to the God of martyrs, although it is to the memory of the martyrs. No one officiating at the altar in the saints' burying-place ever says, We bring an offering to you, O Peter! Or O Paul! Or O Cyprian! The offering is made to God, who gave the crown of martyrdom, while it is in memory of those thus crowned."

Isn't it ironic that our latter day anti-Catholics level the exact same accusations as the heretics of ancient times? No, I guess it's not.

[ealgeone]

Just shows that someone even like Augustine can make errors.

[Antoninus]

Just shows that someone even like Augustine can make errors.

Or that you can.

[smvoice]

I get really tired of hearing the “16th Century interpretations of dudes”. How about a short BIBLICAL history, straight from God’s word, not from “church historians”?

“Paul said, concerning his first trial date of his FINAL Roman imprisonment, that “no man stood with me, but all men forsook me” (2 Tim.4:16). There was NOT ONE MAN IN ROME who came and stood with Paul. This was after some 22 YEARS of MINISTRY IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE. It was AFTER writing a glorious letter to the Saints at Rome, AND after coming to Rome AND having TAUGHT FROM HIS HOME THERE FOR TWO YEARS.
“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all who came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”(Acts 28:30-31).
WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE ROMAN SAINTS?? THEY ALL FORSOOK HIM!

When people inquire, as they often will, CONCERNING WHEN THE PROBLEMS OF THE CHURCH BEGAN, one need not look to various of HUMAN CHURCH HISTORY; one needs only to see the DIVINE RECORD. OF THIS APOSTASY. AS RECORDED IN THE BOOK OF 2 TIMOTHY. As Paul was awaiting his execution in the dark, damp dungeon of Rome’s prison, the apostasy had ALREADY BEGUN. “The Church in Ruins. Clyde L. Pinkerton, Jr.

Who were they following? Certainly not Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles.

[ealgeone]

Yep...it’s possible. However, I’ve not made the error of praying TO a created being.

[Antoninus]

I get really tired of hearing the “16th Century interpretations of dudes”.

I'm sure you do. The truth hurts.

WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE ROMAN SAINTS?? THEY ALL FORSOOK HIM!

Paul was a Roman saint--indeed, a Roman citizen, though a Jew. His shrine was built and visited by Romans from that time even until now.

If Paul stood alone before the Roman authorities, he wasn't the first (Christ) nor the last (practically all the martyrs) who would suffer that fate.

[smvoice]

If I may, you appear to be a complete fool. Seemingly unable to READ and COMPREHEND. Either that or you do not want to see and comprehend. Which would explain your vapid responses to anything of real value: that would be God’s word, rightly divided. You would rather regurgitate doctrines and traditions of men it seems.

What was given to you should spark your interest to actually KNOW when the apostasy began. I don’t think you want to know. It would open your eyes and you seem to be very content in your blindness. That’s a real shame

[Antoninus]

If I may, you appear to be a complete fool.

"You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. [Matthew 5:21-22]

As your brother in Christ, I advise you to take back what you said.

The apostasy began in the first days with the likes of Simon Magus and others like him. It metastasized in the 16th century. And satan smiled.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“ The rule seems to be,

I ping people who are believers and love His Word to things I think will interest them.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“ and to obtain a share in their merits, and the assistance of their prayers.

Never in Scripture.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“ Either that or you do not want to see and comprehend. ”

I think we have a winner

[Antoninus]

Never in Scripture.

I would trust Augustine's knowledge of Scripture over any of the so-called "reformers" any day of the week, and seven times on Sunday. Without even a second thought.