Posted on 10/18/2019 3:39:19 AM PDT by ealgeone
15So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us. 2 Thess 2:15
Ok....what are those "traditions" that Paul is claiming?
Again I ask....what is the context of this passage in relation to the rest of 2 Thess 2.
This is basic Bible study 101.
“And you base all of this on just what?...”
The teaching of all the popes from Peter through Pius XII.
(A vastly different position from that which Luther held.)
Some of your fellow Roman Catholics on these forums have told us we cannot make these kind of judgments you are making. we've been told only your priesthood can make these assessments.
This is where I see the disconnect in Roman Catholicism.
You allow yourself what you don't allow non-Roman Catholics...the ability to asses the veracity of a teaching.
“...we’ve been told only your priesthood can make these assessments.
This is where I see the disconnect in Roman Catholicism....”
These assessments have been made in union with not only valid Catholic priests but also a valid Catholic Bishop.
This is a bad game of chess on your part.
Again....how do you determine who is or is not a "valid Catholic priest or a valid Catholic Bishop"?
Who are these gentlemen to say where the pope is wrong?
You're advancing the argument of the Reformation all over again.
I prefer like Luther to base on scripture
If this is but your game of Chess, then I am not participating, for I will rather deal with serious seekers who are in it for salvation of souls and God’s glory, not sport.
This is about the salvation of people. This is why I post. To bring to light the errors of Rome.
How many people prior to the Reformation believed the false promise of buying indulgences? For that matter how many believe that now?
One gains Heaven only one way....and that is through faith in Christ and no one or nothing else.
Your comment: “Guess what he was right on the 50”
So how do you know? Just your personal opinion.
Can you document in the Bible where faith alone or scripture alone is what Jesus taught?
What then is the part assigned to faith in justification? According to Luther (and Calvin also), the faith that justifies is not, as the Catholic Church teaches, a firm belief in Gods revealed truths and promises (fides theoretica, dogmatica), but is the infallible conviction (fides fiducialis, fiducia) that God for the sake of Christ will no longer impute to us our sins, but will consider and treat us, as if we were really just and holy, although in our inner selves we remain the same sinners as before.
Are we saved by faith alone? No way! As we saw before, in Matthew 19:16-19, Jesus himself said to a rich young man who had asked him what he needed to do to have eternal life:
If you would enter life, keep the commandments You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Or, how about Matthew 12:36-37? Here, Jesus says:
I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.
In Revelation 2:23, Jesus says, I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve. Jesus does not render a judgment based solely on what our hearts deserve but also on what our works deserve.
Peter taught that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of ones own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 Pet. 1:2021) and went on to warn about those who taught without authority: There will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction (2 Pet. 2:1).
https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/Justification
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/authority-to-teach
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/did-jesus-teach-salvation-by-faith-alone
If you would enter life, keep the commandments You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
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As with all things Roman Catholic...context is completely missing.
I post all of the exchange between Jesus and the young ruler.
Have you sold all of your possessions?
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16And someone came to Him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life? 17And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments. 18Then he said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; 19HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
20The young man said to Him, All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?
21Jesus said to him, If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.
22But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property. Matt 19:16-22 NASB
1. When Jesus said "repent" he meant that believers should live a whole life repenting
2. Only God can give salvation - not a priest.
3. Inwards penitence must be accompanied with a suitable change in lifestyle.
4. Sin will always remain until we enter Heaven.
5. The pope must act according to canon law.
6. Only God can forgive -the pope can only reassure people that God will do this.
7. A sinner must be humbled in front of his priest before God can forgive him.
8. Canon law applies only to the living not to the dead.
10. The priest must not threaten those dying with the penalty of purgatory.
11. The church through church penalties is producing a human crop of weeds.
13. When you die all your debts to the church are wiped out and those debts are free from being judged.
16. Purgatory = Hell. Heaven = Assurance.
18. A sinful soul does not have to be always sinful. It can be cleansed.
19. There is no proof that a person is free from sin.
20. Even the pope - who can offer forgiveness - cannot totally forgive sins held within.
21. An indulgence will not save a man.
22. A dead soul cannot be saved by an indulgence.
24. Therefore most people are being deceived by indulgences.
27. It is nonsense to teach that a dead soul in Purgatory can be saved by money.
28. Money causes greed - only God can save souls.
30. No-one is sure of the reality of his own penitence - no-one can be sure of receiving complete forgiveness.
32. People who believe that indulgences will let them live in salvation will always be damned - along with those who teach it.
33. Do not believe those who say that a papal indulgence is a wonderful gift which allows salvation.
34. Indulgences only offer Man something which has been agreed to by Man.
36. A man can be free of sin if he sincerely repents - an indulgence is not needed.
38. Do not despise the popes forgiveness but his forgiveness is not the most important.
39. The most educated theologians cannot preach about indulgences and real repentance at the same time.
40. A truly repent person will be sorry for his sins and happily pay for them. Indulgences trivialize this issue.
42. Christians should be taught that the buying of indulgences does not compare with being forgiven by Christ.
43. A Christian who gives to the poor or lends to those in need is doing better in Gods eyes than one who buys 'forgiveness'.
44. This is because of loving others, love grows and you become a better person. A person buying an indulgence does not become a better person.
46. A Christian should buy what is necessary for life not waste money on an indulgence.
48. The pope should have more desire for devout prayer than for ready money.
49. Christians should be taught not to rely on an indulgence. They should never lose their fear of God through them.
53. Those who forbid the word of God to be preached and who preach pardons as a norm are enemies of both the pope and Christ.
54. It is blasphemy that the word of God is preached less than that of indulgences.
55. The pope should enforce that the gospel - a very great matter - must be celebrated more than indulgences.
58. Relics are not the relics of Christ, although they may seem to be. They are, in fact, evil in concept.
60. Salvation can be sought for through the church as it has been granted this by Christ.
61. It is clear that the power of the church is adequate, by itself, for the forgiveness of sins.
62. The main treasure of the church should be the Gospels and the grace of God.
65. The treasured items in the Gospels are the nets used by the workers.
66. Indulgences are used to net an income for the wealthy.
68. They are the furthest from the grace of God and the piety and love of the cross.
72. Blessed are they who think about being forgiven.
73. The pope is angered at those who claim that pardons are meaningless.
75. It is wrong to think that papal pardons have the power to absolve all sin.
76. You should feel guilt after being pardoned. A papal pardon cannot remove guilt.
81. Pardoners make the intelligent appear disrespectful because of the popes position.
84. Evil men must not buy their salvation when a poor man, who is a friend of God, cannot.
88. What good would be done to the church if the pope was to forgive hundreds of people each day ?
89. Why are indulgences only issued when the pope sees fit to issue them ?
91. If the pope had worked as he should (and by example) all the problems stated above would not have existed.
93. Those in the church who claim there is no problem must go.
94. Christians must follow Christ at all cost.
95. Let Christians experience problems if they must - and overcome them - rather than live a false life based on present Catholic teaching.
https://www.warrencountyschools.org/userfiles/1687/Classes/192174/the%2095%20theses.pdf?id=575782
Yes....no human wrote Scripture on their own....they were moved by the Spirit.
and went on to warn about those who taught without authority: There will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction (2 Pet. 2:1).
You mean like this?
Saint Anselm says, that as it is impossible for one who is not devout to Mary, and consequently not protected by her, to be saved,
Lady in heaven, we have but one advocate, and that is thyself, and thou alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation.
The Glories of Mary, Alphonsus de Liguori: 1696 - 1787
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Scripture says otherwise:
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. Jn 10:28
5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5
I see more context is needed.
18And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: The Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this: 19I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first. 20But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. 22Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. 24But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they call themI place no other burden on you. 25Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come. 26He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; 27AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father; 28and I will give him the morning star. 29He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Rev 2:18-29 NASB
Aren't you a priest?
Do they not teach context to you guys in your seminary?
Well, that’s a bit different!
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(w)hoever lives in peace with God, whoever lets himself be reconciled with Him, finds also peace with himself, with his neighbor and the creation that surrounds him. Faith helps (a person) to live, faith gives joy, faith is a great gift: this is the deepest conviction of Pope Benedict,
https://www.freerepublic.com/~adsum/
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Yep! Which is why they will continue to hate and condemn him. Won’t it be fun to watch when (if) they make it to heaven and they meet Martin Luther there as he has been rejoicing in the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ for all these centuries? He might even offer to give them a tour! ;o)
Hebrews 11.
God said to honor your Father and Mother. the Blessed Mother is our spiritual mother and the the Mother of God. We honor her and pray to her and all the holy ones. Ephesians 6:18
The Blessed Mother without sin is closer to God than the rest of us and helped Jesus in our salvation. Jesus is our judge, and the Blessed Mother is our advocate who pleads our cause.
Protestants should find in their hearts to honor and love the Blessed Mother.
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