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To: boatbums

“Scripture says multiple times that there will be people slain for their faith during this time, so that tells me not everyone remains in unbelief.”

Ok, so there are Christians on earth during this time, since they can’t be dismissed as “just Jews” if they have faith in Christ that they are willing to die for.

“During the Tribulation, there won’t be Christians enduring God’s wrath, because it’s not meant for them/us”

But you just said there were going to be Christians on earth. So there are only 2 possibilities here, either they are suffering God’s wrath too (in which case the promise to keep us from wrath can’t mean that we will all be saved from the tribulation), OR they are somehow miraculously kept from suffering God’s wrath (in which case the argument that we have to be removed before the tribulation so that we won’t suffer wrath also breaks down).

So there is a logical inconsistency there in these arguments.

“During the Tribulation, there won’t be Christians enduring God’s wrath, because it’s not meant for them/us. We are taken out of the way...”

But we’re not all taken out of the way, as you have admitted, since there must be Christians on earth during the tribulation in order for there to be tribulation saints. So that argument isn’t enough to resolve the contradiction.

“Because He is taken out of the way, the deception will be successful.”

Do you really believe the Holy Spirit is “taken out of the way” during the tribulation? How would that even work, since the Holy Spirit is God and God is by His nature omnipresent? How could any of the people who are saved during the tribulation be saved if they have no access to the Holy Spirit, since the Holy Spirit must prepare us to receive salvation, as we cannot, in our natural sinful state, accept it?

“Do you not believe there will be a “Rapture” at all?”

Well, I certainly believe there will be a resurrection of the just, and those Christians alive when it happens will be transformed directly into their heavenly bodies, rather than having to suffer death first. If you want to call that a “rapture”, I don’t have any objection, but I don’t see much point in inventing another term for something the Bible simply calls a resurrection.

“Do you believe there will be a time of Great Tribulation?”

Yep.

“What about the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ upon the earth prior to Him creating a new heaven and a new earth wherein righteousness dwells for all eternity?”

Yep.

“Are all the Scripture passages about these things not literal but allegorical only?”

If you can show me some passages that say “the church will be removed before the tribulation”, of course I’ll believe that literally, but those passages don’t exist. The passages that do touch on the subject seem to say the opposite, as far as I can tell.


132 posted on 05/17/2019 7:49:38 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
If you can show me some passages that say “the church will be removed before the tribulation”, of course I’ll believe that literally, but those passages don’t exist. The passages that do touch on the subject seem to say the opposite, as far as I can tell.

You can read about it in I Thessalonians 4 and 5 and continuing to II Thessalonians and then events spoken of in John's book of Revelation. The article with this thread lays them all out. The Rapture, I believe is another "mystery" that was revealed to St. Paul just as the one he wrote about to the Corinthians concerning our resurrection in I Corinthians 15 where we shall not all sleep (die) but we shall all be changed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye.

I've spent many years studying this subject and I remain convinced there will be a catching up of the body of Christ prior to the seven year period known as the Tribulation. Nothing I have read adequately disproves it and I am not hanging onto the doctrine out of some misplaced pride or stubbornness. I know not everyone sees it the same way which is why I don't try to browbeat or get into a knockdown drag out fight over it nor do I want to continue arguing with you about it. Whether one believes it or not doesn't determine their eternal salvation. But...I do think the awareness that Christ could come back for us at any moment has a positive effect on how we live our lives. His imminent return heightens our senses to the events around us. We see how world events are all leading to the time when Jesus returns to set up His kingdom upon earth and we will finally see how we were always meant to live under His rule.

God bless you as you live for His glory and await the blessed hope.

138 posted on 05/17/2019 6:55:09 PM PDT by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy he saved us.)
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