Pope in Morocco warns Catholics off converting others

Yahoo News ^ | March 31, 2019 | Sophie Pons

[ebb tide]

What’s different “today”?

Too many chicken; that’s what’s different.

[pax_et_bonum]

The Pope isn’t Catholic, I hate to be blunt.

It’s the truth.

He’s not Catholic, Christian, or really Pope.

He’s a very bad man.

Enough said by me - I’m trying to be charitable during Lent.

Praying for Pope Benedict.

[Tired of Taxes]

If you read the full context of what the Pope said (in the link I shared above), then you’ll see that he’s encouraging conversion through communication as opposed to proselytism.

There is a distinction.

His point is that proselytizing leads to “an impasse.” He’s saying that it doesn’t work.

He recommends that, instead, Christians spread the Word through their actions (esp. charity), thus inviting dialogue.

[piusv]

It didn't start with him.

Exactly. And yet Benedict is still "pope" to some. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[ebb tide]

Proeeltyzism did not become an ugly word until VC II.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Japanese Martyrs

In January, 1552, St. Francis Xavier had remarked the proselytizing spirit of the early neophytes. "I saw them", he wrote, "rejoicing in our successes, manifesting an ardent zeal to spread the faith and to win over to baptism the pagans they conquered."

[KittenClaws]

ululating?

Somehow, that just does not sound right.

[Salvation]

Some Jesuits are, indeed, Christian. One can’t categorize ALL Jesuits that way. Why do you do it — spreading untruths?

[onyx]

Exactly. And yet Benedict is still "pope" to some. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Gossip much, piusv? I'm NOT blind at all.
Yep, you're right, POPE BENEDICT XVI REMAINS MY POPE! And I am also fully aware that Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran.

However, neither Popes' JPII or B-16 ever catered to Mohammedanism or strayed from Church teachings. OTOH, Bergolio is sympathetic to radical liberation theology which was practiced in his native Argentina in the 60's & 70's and like the Pope Francis, liberation theology is anti-capitalist and quite Leftist.

[onyx]

BUMP.
Same here.
Praying for Pope Benedict XVI.

[DungeonMaster]

This pope is to popes what AOC is to democrats. AOC = democrat on truth serum.

[piusv]

Hmmmm, Touched a nerve I see.

LOL that they never strayed from Church teachings. You must think Vatican II is actually Catholic then.

[ebb tide]

Pope Reiterates Four-Point Theme for Migrants in Rabat Speech

Pope Francis on March 30, 2019, repeated his four-point plan for meeting the needs of migrants, suggested in his Message for the 2018 World Day of Migrants and Refugees: accept, protect, promote and integrate.

[piusv]

Proselytism did not become an ugly word until VC II.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

[onyx]

No, you didn’t “touch a nerve.”

I just find “pussy gossips” like you annoying. Given that I happened to spot your cowardly post, I couldn’t resist calling you out.

Other than my postings, you have no idea “what I think.”

[piusv]

LOL. Cowardly, pussy gossipy post? It was a general comment meant for a number of people who feel as you do. Self-centered much?

By the way here's your "Pope" Benedict most certainly catering to Mohammedism:

"I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims. These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought. I hope this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialogue, with mutual respect."

[ebb tide]

Pope Francis on March 30, 2019, repeated his four-point plan for meeting the needs of migrants, suggested in his Message for the 2018 World Day of Migrants and Refugees: accept, protect, promote and integrate.

To "accept, protect, promote and integrate" but no mention of evangelizing!

This pope doesn't care about saving souls, only about saving his PC face.

[Tired of Taxes]

The pope didn’t say proselytism was bad.

He said it leads to an “impasse” - and he was talking to Christians in a 99% Muslim country where proselytism is criminalized.

There’s nothing wrong with proselytism - that is, actively trying to convert non-Christians.

But, it’s probably not the best way to spread the Gospel in a majority-Muslim country. It’s better to live as an example and welcome non-Christians with the hope that they’ll convert eventually.

Remember the missionary who was killed on that remote Indian island not long ago.

[MacNaughton]

63 If you read the full context of what the Pope said (in the link I shared above), then you’ll see that he’s encouraging conversion through communication as opposed to proselytism. There is a distinction.

His point is that proselytizing leads to “an impasse.” He’s saying that it doesn’t work. He recommends that, instead, Christians spread the Word through their actions (esp. charity), thus inviting dialogue.

Freepers are guilty of jumping to conclusions before reading an entire article. Thank you for sticking to your guns. But as a pilgrim struggling to stay on the straight and narrow, I do not agree with Pope Francis' approach of dialog through acts of charity as a method to convert Muslims to Christianity.

There is no “Golden Rule”, (Matthew 7:12, Luke 6:31), for the kafir under Sharia. Kaffur living in the Dar al-Islam ("Realm of the Believers") are known as dhimmi. Their civil, property (including ownership of weapons of self-defense), and criminal law rights are restricted and subordinated to those of Muslims. They may be forced to pay a, jizya (“penalty tax”). They cannot worship their religion openly (including building/ repairing of churches, temples, etc.) nor practice freedom of speech. Charity by Muslims to kaffur is haram (“forbidden”). Dhimmitude is designed to make the life of the kaffur so hard and difficult that over time they either flee, convert to Islam ("voluntary submission to Allah"), or die.

Paul's Sermon on Mars Hill
Paul's actions in Athens, as accounted in the scripture above, is the Christian model for proselytizing, i.e., find something in common as a starting point of discussion. Charity won't do it with Muslims.

The Muslim claim that Islam , Judaism, and Christianity share a common heritage as Abrahamic (monotheistic) faiths is problematic. Christians accept the Hebrew Bible, or Old Testament, as it is. Jews and Christians focus on different aspects of Abraham – the former see him as their patriarch in the flesh while the latter see him as their patriarch in faith or spirit – but they both rely on the same verbatim account of Abraham found in Genesis.

Christians do not add, take away, or distort the accounts of the patriarchs that the Jews rely upon. Conversely, while relying on the figures of the Old and New Testaments, primarily for the weight of antiquity and authority attached to their names, Islam completely recasts them to fit its own agendas.

In the Muslim account, not only does Abraham leave his own country on God’s promise to make him a “great nation” (Genesis 12), he exemplifies the hate all Muslims are obligated to have for all non-Muslims. In surah ("book or chapter in the Qur'an) 60:4, Allah said, “You have a good example in Abraham and those who followed him for they said to their people ‘we disown you and the idols you worship beside Allah. We renounce you: enmity and hate shall reign between us until you believe in Allah alone.’”

This āyāt ("verse") is the cornerstone verse that all observant Muslims cite as proof that all Muslims must be hostile to the kaffur even if they are liberal and kind to you. The Meccan suwar refer to the Jews and Christians as Ahl al-Kitāb (“the people of the book”, i.e., the Torah and the Holy Bible). This favorable reference is abrogated in the surah cited above.

The Qur'an is comprised of 114 suwar (“chapters”). The first 87 were received/ revealed/ memorized/ written down by the scribes of the prophet Muhammad while he lived in Mecca over a period of 13 years. He converted ~150 followers to his new religion during this time. The remaining 27 suwar were received in Medina where he later lived the last 10 years of his life after fleeing Mecca.

The suwar, like the chapters in the books of the Holy Bible, are comprised of āyāt (“verses”). The suwar are arranged roughly in order of descending size; therefor the arrangement of the Qur'an is neither chronological nor thematic. There is, in a sense, a reverse chronological order where all of the long opening suwar where the prophet Muhammad is laying down the law and engaging in extended tirades against Jews and other infidels(but mostly Jews) are Medinan, and all of the short suwar at the end, which tend to be more tolerant towards non-Muslims, are Meccan. According to Islamic scholars, relying on 3 āyāt, the Medinan suwar abrogate the earlier Meccan chapters where contradictions occur. Islam began to rapidly grow after the prophet Muhammad started receiving the Medinan suwar which correlated with him transforming his life to live as a brigand/ warlord during the last 10 years of his life when he led his followers into 72 battles conquering new territories and converting new followers. You need to know where the prophet Muhammad was and what was happening when studying any given passage from the Qur'an.

1,394 years of world history since the Battle of Badr (70 miles SW of Medina) in 624 CE fought by the final prophet of Allah, Muhammad, and his followers, proves that the kafir (“infidel/ unbeliever/ non-Muslim) cannot …

… with Sharia (“religious law forming part of the Islamic tradition”).

Emperor Constantine and Licinius establish the Edict of Milan in 313 CE whereby Christians would be allowed to follow their faith without oppression. This essentially lifted the intermittent Roman persecutions that the early Christian church suffered during its first 270 years of existence.

[lastchance]

This pope shames the faithful again and again. I am so saddened by his obvious disdain if not outright contempt for bringing the Gospel to all nations.

[Tired of Taxes]

Thanks for all the info. Agreed... Christians and Jews are persecuted in/by Muslim countries.

I do not agree with Pope Francis' approach of dialog through acts of charity as a method to convert Muslims to Christianity.

The pope advised Christians not to proselytize in Morocco. Others here are objecting to that message. They point out that Christians are supposed to spread the Gospel.

I think you and I agree - correct? - that proselytizing will lead only to prison and maybe death for the Christians in those countries.

So, to the Christians in Morocco, the pope advised not to proselytize but, instead, to focus on dialog in other ways. That might not work at all, either. But at least he's not telling those Christians to become martyrs.