Posted on 06/23/2018 5:43:33 AM PDT by HarleyD
Drive the luke warm bodies out or turn up the heat!
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Try to find a Godly Methodist church.....not possible.
Studies have shown it is more like 7% than 20% that do all the work
“...80 percent of the work is being carried out by 20 percent or less of the people....”
That is true in most places.
There is some NT scripture about Christians and churches being “lukewarm”. God says he we “spew them out of his mouth”. Seems to me that process is well underway.
I go to a small country church with about 120 active members. I am an elder, the treasurer and the choir director. We would be in pretty good shape if a full 20% pulled their weight.
Lots of people opt for larger churches simply so they can “get lost” in the numbers and not serve. Reminds me of the Mohatma Ghandi quote: “I could have been a Christian had I not met one first.” We Christians really, really need to work on our delivery.
>> 80 percent of the work is being carried out by 20 percent or less of the people <<
That’s approximately true for any organization that I’ve ever been a part of. It’s simply the way humans will always behave in a social setting. Get over it.
We met and became friends with many really great people. That was the reward.
The down side was we both worked full time elsewhere and raised three offspring along the way. It was likely the kids that got us involved in church activities in the beginning.
We both burned out and finally withdrew within a few years of the kids moving out.
While I feel we both "paid our dues" and have no energy for that kind of involvement these days, I still encourage younger people to take a run at it. It carries its own reward.
As for Chris Sonksen, he might be in the wrong line of work, or he no longer bases his faith on the Good News. I never worried that much that only 20% (if that many) of us pushed the ball forward. On the other hand, I preferred a grain of insipid salt over the "suggestions" of those unwilling to join us.
Volunteers usually welcome any help that comes their way. It seems if you are an altruist with a Judeo-Christian foundation, enthusiastic volunteers should rejoice in them...the helpers, that is.
I guess I worry less about the 80% than I do about diminishing faith in society in general. I also worry that too many "leaders" who should know better applaud diminishing faith.
They say societal attitudes swing on a pendulum. Here's hoping the pendulum starts to swing back.
A few thoughts:
1) This is from the media with a agenda
2) Read the whole article, not the headline
3) Take a look at the site. Agree or disagree?
4) What does God say on the matter?
Zec 4:6 Then he said to me, “This is what the LORD says to Zerubbabel: It is not by force nor by strength, but by My Spirit, says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies.
The Church isn’t what most “Christians” have been led to believe it is. Hint: it’s not a building, denomination, nor is it a weekly gathering on Sunday.
:D
[In most churches, 80 percent of the work is being carried out by 20 percent or less of the people.]
This is true of virtually any organization.
Pareto principle
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the optimal allocation of resources, see Pareto efficiency.
The Pareto principle (also known as the 80/20 rule, the law of the vital few, or the principle of factor sparsity)[1][2] states that, for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.[3] Management consultant Joseph M. Juran suggested the principle and named it after Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto, who noted the 80/20 connection while at the University of Lausanne in 1896, as published in his first paper, “Cours d’économie politique”. Essentially, Pareto showed that approximately 80% of the land in Italy was owned by 20% of the population.
20% of the workers produce 80% of the results.
Also, 20% of the workers cause 80% of the work problems.
20% of the patients use 80% of our health resources.
80% of the internet demand happens 20% of the time.
Probably 20% of Freepers contribute 80% of the funds donated to Free Republic.
If or when we stray from the example of the New Testament church given us in the book of Acts we err. We must live out our faith openly and unashamedly in love for the lost and infellowship with fellow believers. If this leads to persecution ( it will) did not our Lord Jesus tell us the world hated ( still hates) Him and the world will hate us also?
It is this aspect where our churches fail, America was founded as a safe haven for Christian people, free from persecution from the state. This ‘safe haven’ made us restful and lazy. This is no longer the case. Satan is STILL roaming to and fro seeking whom he can devour. He cannot devour the saved but he can steal your witness by making one think out of fear for the body, pride, acceptance in the local community. God tells us to fear the one who can kill the spirit. We are spiritual beings living in earthly vessels, when we learn to fear God (who loves us and died for us) we will live as those in the book of Acts, in the hope of Christ’s promises and in faith through the Holy Spirit.
This living in the spirit will make us one with the Father through Jesus the Christ and we will see revival in our land and our churches will blossom and grow in love and fellowship bringing glory to God. Amen.
That 7% is far closer to my experience. I volunteered in the men's group and men's ministry at my church for a number of years. As the church grew from 350 to well over 8,000 in the course of five years, the demands on those of us deeply involved and embedded in the church's ministries just grew, and grew, and grew. We couldn't get people to volunteer to serve and when we did, we barely had time to train them which just caused them to quit. It was a vicious cycle.
The time finally came when I couldn't handle anymore as volunteering at church became a full-time job, and I already had one of those which I needed to pay the bills!
It was a real struggle balancing work, family and church demand especially when we went to six services on the weekends and my weekend days and early evenings were spent at church in addition to the two evenings between 6-10pm that were already spent there handling men's ministry and sound ministry responsibilities.
I'm convinced every church and organization has this problem. Certainly anyplace I've ever worked has.
There is no ‘perfect’ church. Find a good one and live with the imperfections. Praising and worshipping God in a congregation is spiritually correct and healthy for the soul, mind and heart. With that said I should follow that advice more often.
Pastors like to pretend they are the only one with a job and obligations. Last time I checked pastors have short days six days a week and one long day on Sunday. They are done by 2 p.m. or so on Sunday. It is exhausting.
As far as only a small cadre of activists doing most of the non-pastor things at churches, I have always, my whole life, found that to be the case. No matter how many come to Sunday services, the majority never serve on committees, never volunteer, never teach at children’s bible classes, never serve as lay readers, ushers, handing out & collecting the offering plate, or zillions of other things. Most all churches have a group of dedicated members and a large body that sometimes, not always, attend Sunday services. I have seen the above in Christian churches of all denominations, from the seriously Evangelical, Fundamentalist or Conservative, to Catholics and “mainline” Protestants, and “independents”. So that part of what the pastor describes is to me not a change that churches have undergone.
I am sure there are some churches where what I describe is not their norm, and I remember a few along the way in my experience where that is true, but I think those churches have always been a minority, not the usual. I think it was likely that way even in the 1st century.
There are some in the South.
It pretty much reflects society. Past, present and future. Slackers have always been a problem throughout history, regardless of all the conveniences created along the way.
What a bogus headline.
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