Skip to comments.Romans Ch. 2
Posted on 04/24/2018 8:24:29 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Heavenly Father, thank You for giving us new hearts in the spirit through Your Son. Help us in the study of Your Word. In Jesus' name, Amen.
This is in direct contradiction to Romans 3:21 dealing with imputed righteousness through faith if Christ as the Son of God-—
“21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his bloodto be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.”
Now, If Christ died for our Sin— on the Cross— For those who believe in Him as the Son of God, explain how we are judged if we are already PARDONED? Otherwise Christ lived , died and was resurrected for nothing.
Well, I’ll respond to your comment, but if I recall correctly you also made some comments awhile back that were critical of the Bible.
I actually haven’t studied all that much about this part of Romans, but just today I was doing a little and I’m going to do more. I don’t, though, see this as contradicting what Paul writes about just a little bit later, justification by faith alone. Just from what I’ve read so far, it seems that Paul is laying the groundwork for his discussion of justification by faith and more essentially, the Gospel. It’s simple in one way, but in another way, not at all. Salvation is not through good works, but a genuine Christian will do them. Have you read commentaries on this chapter in the past? As I said, I’ve only read some but I’m going to study this chapter in more depth now.
I appreciate your thoughts. I am one that sees vast and glaring contradictions in the Bible. I do not worship the Bible. I am a Christian. I view the Bible as history book. Most of it is hearsay . There is some possible eye witness in John and Matthew but most of the writings would not be admitted into evidence in any civilized court system. But back to the main issue— are we “saved”or are we not “saved” by the sacrifice and atonement of the Son of God?? Here you have Paul in Romans Chapter 2 saying we are not saved and face “judgment” but in Chapter 3 we see we are not held account for any sin —i.e. saved. This basic foundation of Christianity is awash in contradiction and ambiguity. The Legalists don’t want you saved. They want to tithing and in attendance and their service fearful of “judgment day” . They “stack” things on salvation like good works, repentance, baptism,constant prayer,etc. etc. But I focus on John 3:16- 3:18 and none of that is necessary or relevant. And of course we have the Thief on the Cross with Jesus. It is irrefutable that the Thief did nothing but accept Jesus and was saved that day.
It is all interesting to me. I have not ever been a “bot” for the orthodoxy. God gave us these brains and expects us to use them. We are not prohibited from thinking.
Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.This is why it is prudent to never accuse anyone of losing their salvation.
This is how I have to see things here, then, regarding what you say you believe. You severely call into question the Bible and largely reject it as authoritative and don’t recognize it as God’s Word. By that and the rest of what you say here, I have to conclude that by this logic, there is in your belief no other Christians but you, and Jesus died for you and you alone. The claims you make here create that sort of Christianity. Of course I and many other Christians couldn’t and wouldn’t accept that. I’m not going to take the time and make the effort, at least for right now, to discuss any of the different claims you make here because they’re all things that many, many other Christians have already refuted, and their writings are not hard to find on the internet. I also would think you’ve already come across what many have said in answer to everything you claim here many times already, since these are all issues that are commonly brought up by unbelievers and addressed by Christians. What I will say is that the Bible is God’s own Word. I’ve already experienced for myself that many things I once thought were contradictions actually either had good explanations or were just misunderstandings on my part. We have to trust the Lord for whatever doesn’t seem to make sense to us and we can’t make sense of at the moment, and when God reveals all, we will see that there were no true contradictions. So the only other thing I can say, then, is that I hope you’ll also come to accept and trust God’s Word.
Amen. We have follow all that the Bible says about judging and about not judging.
Which one is God’s word? Matthew 1 or Luke 3:23? Why is it relevant what the linage of Joseph was even though these two obviously contradict each other. ( don’t go there that one is “Mary” — doesn’t say that). The Bible was assembled about 362 A.D.and over 3000 manuscripts are said to have been rejected including the actual book of Solomon ( who wrote it) and Bartholomew who was a disciple and an eye witness to the resurrected Christ. Why? And yet they put “James” in which is total saved by “works”.. I think many at the counsel could simply not read Hebrew or Greek. They read Latin and didn’t have a clue of what they were doing. If “all scripture in God Breathed”, what is “scripture”? Is my writing scripture? Why wasn’t Bartholomew “scripture”. Who elected those priests to edit the book? If Jesus had written a book — that would ,in my mind, be God’s word. You can worship the Bible if you want , I think it becomes an IDOL if you do.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.The word Scripture is connected to Christ. In this verse we have scripture preaching to Abraham before the Bible was written.
I have heard all those arguments. None of them hold up. You have my opinion based on fact.
Look for God’s fingerprints on the Bible.
I’ll just say that to begin with, my answer here again is what I’ve already written to you, and given what you’ve written to this point, there’s not much else to say beyond that. I will say, though, that you pervert the meaning of what happened with the Thief on the Cross, and that that account is only found in the Gospel of Luke, not in either Matthew or John. And from what you’ve said here, I have to conclude you reject God’s truth, so I must warn you to repent and accept Jesus while you can.
I am far beyond your faith and acceptance of Christ as Savior. You are mired in legalism and institutional “church” doctrine. Please do not question my faith again. You seek repentance for believing in false idols and quick.
I don’t know how much more, if anything, I have to say beyond this about your claims here, but I will say that I won’t agree to not say anything that questions your faith, raiderboy. In talking to you, I’m trying to do my best to follow what God’s Word says, and I wonder why it would even matter to you what I believe or say about you since you believe I’m an idolater. You also decided for yourself to enter the discussion here, and in it you’ve attacked God’s Word, and called believing that the Bible is God’s Word idolatry. You’ve called faithful Christians bots. And you say you believe certain things, but how does it make sense then, raiderboy, to tell me to repent of idolatry, as you accuse me of? I believe in Christ. I have what the thief on the cross had. In your book, that then makes my faith unquestionable. So if Christians want to engage in what you call idolatry, it goes against your own personal beliefs to accuse us of sin and for you to tell me to repent. You’ve called repentance a bad thing. And then you decide for yourself what parts of the Bible might be true, but only as history, not as God’s Word. So what are those parts in Matthew and John you take as history? The Bible says when we come to believe in Jesus as God’s Son and accept Him as our Savior who died for our sins, then we’re spiritually reborn and His Spirit comes to live inside of us. Do you believe those things?
Sure. I believe that when I accepted,as true, that Jesus was God’s Son,( not David’s or Joseph’s) I was saved irrevocably and absolutely saved for eternal life. No other requirements exist ( john 3:16-18). I do not find the “church” requirement or the “God’s Word” requirement or baptism, or repentance, ( other that the natural repentance of receiving God’s gift of eternal life.) After receiving that freedom in Christ, I embarked of a study of dogma and found much of it contrived and manipulating. But you and I share one thing in common. We have eternal life. People who don’t have Christ have no eternal life anywhere.
So you say yes, raiderboy, but then you only say that you believe Jesus is the Son of God. What about accepting Him as your Savior who died to save you from the consequences of your sins? You didn’t answer about that part.
Sure I did.
If you mean that your answer acknowledged that you were sinner saved from your sins by Jesus’ sacrifice for you, it didn’t do that. You did the equivalent of a child who, when a parent asks the child if he walked the dog and did his homework, and the child replied, “Yes, I walked the dog,” avoiding the part about their homework. A mere “yes” would have answered for both.
But if you mean that you don’t believe you’re a sinner saved from the consequences of your sin by Jesus’ sacrificial death for you, then you did sort of convey that, like how the child not confirming that he did his homework in that example suggests he didn’t do it.
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