Holocaust victims and Queen Mother posthumously baptised by Mormons

The Guardian ^ | 12-21-2017 | AP Staff

[Elsie]

I pledge to do my best to stop criticizing other Christians' religions but rather engage in polite conversations about that which all Christians should whole-heartedly agree on...

Darned good point!!

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Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[OrangeHoof]

If the Mormons are wrong, it didn’t matter to begin with.

Are you sure?

Of course I'm sure. Why would God listen to them if they're wrong?

It's idiotic to think that God has some sort of scratch pad for salvation and that the only thing that counts is the last line anyone scribbles in under your name. That's a very insulting concept of my Lord.

Jesus knows His sheep and His sheep hear His voice. (John 10:27). There is nobody else who can interfere with that relationship. Let Mormons, Pagans, Muslims, Wiccans, etc do, say or pray whatever they want. It has no bearing on my relationship with my Savior.

[Mrs. Don-o]

What a good-hearted response! I will join you always in worshipping our great God, now and through all eternity.

Merry Christmas and many blessings to you and all your dear ones.

[Mom MD]

It is not harmful to the born again Christian who this group chooses to “baptize” without their knowledge To say it is is both wrong and give this meaningless exercise way too much importance

[Mom MD]

AMEN

[rwa265]

The Queen Mother was given that title so she would not be confused with her daughter, Princess Elizebeth, who became the Queen of England upon the death of King Albert VI.

[Elsie]

It has no bearing on my relationship with my Savior.

How about some other guys?

I think the admonition; found in Scripture; to challenge and HALT false teachings just might have a little bearing in this case.

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2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

It is not harmful to the born again Christian who this group chooses to “baptize” without their knowledge

Of COURSE not!!!

But what about other poor schleps that ain't??

[Elsie]

It is not harmful to the born again Christian who this group chooses to “baptize” without their knowledge

Is it 'harmful' if they KNOW about it?

Is it HARMFUL if NO one speaks up and says...

This ain't BIBLICAL??

[Mom MD]

It’s not biblical But nothing any outside group does can pose a threat to
my or any other believers relationship with Christ or our salvation. Period

[trebb]

Merry Christmas - He is born!

[Elsie]

nothing any outside group does can pose a threat to my or any other believers relationship with Christ or our salvation.

Uh; I think I agreed with this.

But what about UN-believers?

False teachings??

Anything at all on your radar at this Christmas holiday other than Santa???

[Mom MD]

Apparently only one thing on your radar. Why don’t you drop the foaming at the mouth routine for 24 hours. I was answering the concern that this meaningless ritual could harm believers not debating doctrine. I hope you have a merry Christmas and yes my faith is strong and in the right place. I also have several family situations this Christmas that are emotionally very upsetting so Santa is far from my mind. Thank God for the birth of the Prince of Peace and His presence in my life. I don’t think you know the damage your harsh words and attitude cause at times. I am praying for some peace for you as well. Merry Christmas.

[Elsie]

. I was answering the concern that this meaningless ritual could harm believers not debating doctrine.

Mormons have recently posthumously baptised at least 20 Holocaust victims, Humphrey Bogart, Marilyn Monroe and the Queen Mother, according to a researcher who has spent two decades monitoring the church’s massive genealogical database.

Since I found no 'believers' actually mentioned in this threads start; I was wanting to know hiow YOU feel about the things I was concerned about.

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Is there anyone ELSE reading this far wanting to express an opinion on Mormon theology and whether it can HARM anyone who accepts it as fact?

[Elsie]

Anyone?

Remember;

Under church teachings, the rituals provide the deceased a choice in the afterlife to accept or reject the offer of baptism.

It appears that a 'believer' would have already made the 'choice'.

[Loud Mime]

We have a problem when a person’s ego guides their metaphysical beliefs. They claim that others are wrong when they are incapable of proving their own beliefs are true. That, and they believe they speak for God.

It’s pride at work.

Some religions, through their claims of forgiveness, render the Ten Commandments into suggestions. Think about this; it’s a BIG gamble.

We will know the truth soon enough. Place your theological bets and wait.

[Elsie]

More from the Guardian article:

 

“They may mean well but it’s insulting to Jews and it would be insulting to Mr Wiesenthal,” Hier said. “He lived a life of good deeds, and he doesn’t need any assistance in getting to heaven.”

Well; there's the Jewish viewpoint...

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Posthumous baptisms are performed at the church’s 159 temples around the globe, mostly by young people. Members are escorted to a decorative baptismal font resting on statutes of 12 oxen. An adult or older teen male reads a short prayer, and the member – representing the dead relative – is immersed in water. Each baptism is recorded in the database.

At a conference this year, LDS leaders stressed the importance of proxy baptisms – saying God wants all his children “home again, in families and in glory” – and encouraged young members to get involved. The church has nearly 16 million members worldwide.

 

O...K...

Let's see if there are enough folks around that CAN actually do this - needing a CURRENT TR: Temple Recommend. 

 

The idealized vision of a family with a husband and wife married in the temple and children present

describes only one out of five LDS families in the United States and less than 3 percent of LDS families in Japan. 

 

Based on the above information, it seems likely that the highest rates of temple attendance among Mormons are in the Mormon heartland – the Wasatch Front and other parts of the Intermountain West.  The percentage of Mormons who regularly participate in temple worship in that Mormon heartland is unlikely to be as high as the percentage noted in the 2012 Pew Survey – 65%.  Given the methodology of the survey, that number appears to reflect the behaviors of highly engaged Mormons.  The other data provided above suggest that the real number is much lower than the Pew number, perhaps as few as 25% in the U.S. and much lower outside the U.S., but an exact number isn’t known.

https://www.mormonsocialscience.org/2012/01/19/q-what-percentage-of-mormons-regularly-participate-in-temple-worship/

 

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...the exact percentage of Mormons with Temple recommends are not published by Church authorities... http://mormonconspiracy.com/lds-temple.html

(Neither do they publish IN-exact figures!)  

 

“Since the church believes that one must be ‘temple worthy’ in order to attain the Celestial Kingdom, having the power to grant or withhold recommends gives the local bishops immense power. Furthermore, in predominantly Mormon areas the lack of a recommend can often mean the loss of a job or being shunned by one’s neighbors. These slips of paper are most valuable.” --- Laytayne Colvett Scott, Mormon Mirage, pg. 193  

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It  seems to me that if a TR is SO valuable; the church would make every effect to be SURE that each of it's members had one.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Place your theological bets and wait.

Pretty much sums it up; doesn't it!

Some folks at the track will bet on what colors the jockey wears; while others pore over the Daily Racing Form to study the records of horses and jockeys and whatever before they place THEIR bet.

[Elsie]

effect?

no; EFFORT!

[Elsie]

I don’t think you know the damage your harsh words and attitude cause at times.

I am quite blunt at times.

There is a reason...

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Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23

 

  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

 

Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

 

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And St. Paul chimes in...

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Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!