Posted on 05/26/2017 5:08:35 PM PDT by WhatNot
Thanks to all for the many well thought out and informative responses. Contrary to the OP’s assertions, I AM interested in perspectives on various translations.
The title at the beginning of the original post states that the King James Bible Discussion thread is “Where we don’t change God’s word, His word changes us.” The implication being that the KJV is THE definitive version of God’s word, and that any other translation is inferior and suspect.
My whole questioning is based on the fact that God’s word is reflected in the original Hebrew writings. Anything in English, including the KJV, is a translation.
I don’t accept the premise that the KJV is a perfect reflection of God’s word, and any other English translation is second best. The KJV was created by English clergy 1600+ years after the fact. They undoubtedly did their best to translate the original Hebrew, but who is to say that the creators of the NIV, or NAS, or several other versions seeking to make the Bible more readable for a present day audience didn’t do their best either? What makes the KJV THE definitive version other than the fact it is older?
Unless someone can go back to the original Hebrew and categorically demonstrate that, say, the NIV version of the Bible is illegitimate because of specific things that have been misinterpreted, then i question the premise that the KJV is perfect and any other version is not.
The question is very simple.
Revelation 1
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
I have also noticed the the KJ is identical with the Catholic Vulgate translated to English in many places even though it is said that the KJ was translated from what original manuscripts they had and was not just a copy of the Vulgate.
I have heard it said that King James did not give a dam what the Bible said as long as we know what it said, and that in itself means a lot to me.
Question the premise to your satisfaction. I suggest that you read ‘New Age Bible Versions’ by Gail Riplinger.
It details the differences in the versions, side by side.
It also details the people and organizations behind these ‘revisions’. KJV for me only.
Against the original Hebrew?
In the english. If you wish, OT is in hebrew, NT in Greek. I don’t read them. But, KJV has stood the test of 400 yrs.
The newer versions have a purpose: remove essential words and reduce/eliminate the divinity of Christ.
I agree with much of what you’re saying. God speaks to us in many ways. In fact, there are those that cannot even read a word that can still be saved.
That said, my minister prefers to use the KJV because it makes it easier than everyone reading from different translations in Sunday school and Church. He also believes it is a very accurate translation.
Here is an example of how different translations can create problems. John 3:16 is the probably the most popular verse in the entire Bible.
John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
vs.
John 3:16 International Standard Version (ISV)
16 “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his uniquely existing Son so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life.
The KJV says, “ ... his only begotten Son.” The ISV says, “ ... his uniquely existing Son.” Uniquely existing? I am not sure what that means. They are leaving room to the possibility that God may have had other sons before Jesus.
Also, as the KJV says “only begotten son ... “ Elsewhere in the Bible, it refers to those saved as the “sons of God.” Jesus is the only “begotten” son of God. We can become the sons (children) of God. Almost in an adopted sort of way.
There are also many newer versions that should be discredited. There are now politically correct gender neutral versions. Translations more accepting of homosexuality and other types of sin.
Again, I believe the NIV and some other translations are good but I have high regard for the King James Version.
Additionally, you mentioned that the original writings were in Hebrew. The Bible is translations of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.
Again, I can understand your point but I have no issues with someone preferring the King James translation. As I stated, there are those that could never even read a word that will inherit God’s kingdom.
A quick Wikipedia study would show you that there are several literal translations from ancient texts, and there are paraphrased translations, and there are a combination of literal and paraphrase translations.
The benefit of the KJV, to me, is that there are many lexicons referencing the KJV directly and those lexicons and commentaries are great tools in the study of scripture using the KJV and the KJV only.
After many years there are now some lexicons out there and help referencing paraphrased, semi paraphrased, or semi literal translation such as the NIV.
I draw from the KJV mostly but over the years I have gotten involved with some paraphrased only and some semi paraphrase semi literal translation such as NIV. But, into the 80s actually if you really were a serious student of ancient religious texts the KJV was one of the few sources that you could go to with a great numbet of documentary studies and commentaries relating to the verses that you were reading in KJV translated texts.
That’s really all there is to it in a nutshell.
I hope that helps with your understanding. It’s not a battle in my mind as to what is better or worse it’s really a matter of helping people to understand difficulties that they may have in reading and studying the Word directly (literal) or helping them through interpretation (paraphrased). Both have their merits and the I would think that the hearts of the great many interpreters and translators was to help and not to hinder.
If you're willing to participate in the discussion, without sarcasm, then maybe some good can come out of it.
Now, this is a holiday weekend, so I'm not going to spend much time with this, I'm not going to argue with you about what you believe and I'm not going to argue with you about what I believe, you simply state what you believe certain verses mean, and I'll do the same. If you can agree to it then fine, if not oh well at least I tried.
“My question is how do you determine which version is right and which version is wrong in any particular verse you happen to be reading?”
For one the context of the subject, verse before and after, and what other Scriptures say about the subject at hand.
I also use the interlinear Bible and strong’s concordance to help clarify.
When I’m reading and it just doesn’t make sense I research the word or words to confirm the meaning. It isn’t mind altering stuff or salvation issues just slight differences.
Example
Isaiah 34:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
Most other translations use the word “wild oxen” which just doesn’t make sense when in context with verses 6-7 and the basic word wild ox.
In verses 6-7 all the animals are intact male animals or just a goat, but not a castrated animals. Next the word wild ox which is completely contradictory in itself.
Ox are castrated male animals which are/were used for farm labor. Wild Bulls aren’t castrated by natural methods and ox are trained, docile, and tame by nature and by the removal of testosterone.
In my opinion the translators didn’t know much about farm animals and Unicorns just seemed to extreme, but it is what it is. Does it matter in relation to salvation through Jesus Christ absolutely not, but my spiritual gift tunes me to differences like this and I try to listen to my God given gifts.
God's word is filled with things that may "seem" extreme. Things like creation, parting the Red Sea, David and Goliath, Water into wine, God shedding His blood for sinful man, etc etc. If "it seems to be extreme" is the standard for determining truth, then I would think that a very high percentage of the Bible could be disregarded, and unfortunately, many people do just that.
As far as Unicorns in the Bible are concerned, Google pictures of this creature,
Elasmotherium caucasicum
I believe the translators were dead on and you can trust every word in your KJB, because it's perfect.
my biggest fear is that i’m going to quote something wrong and you’re not supposed to change the words written in the bible i do a lot of bible discussion i can be wrong about anything else but quoting the lord’s word wrong is something i just don’t want to do !
Rev 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
to me it would be horrible to make it all for naught !
“I believe the translators were dead on and you can trust every word in your KJB, because it’s perfect.”
While I agree it’s a great translation it’s not perfect except in the basic message, but not word for word thus not perfect.
The key to any translation is context, context, and context, but if you think it is perfect praise the Lord and God Bless.
“my biggest fear is that i’m going to quote something wrong and you’re not supposed to change the words written in the bible i do a lot of bible discussion i can be wrong about anything else but quoting the lord’s word wrong is something i just don’t want to do !”
Unfortunately as long as you and I live in this fallen tent we call our flesh you will at some point be wrong! The very reason you give is the very reason I study with so many versions. I am trying with all of my fleshy energy, with prayer, and with guidance from the Holy Spirit to get it right. I also teach a lot of young, seasoned, and somewhere in the middle men, so I do indeed see your point.
My best advice is once you have did all your homework then all you can do is trust in the Holy Spirit and let Him do what He does best.
Ok thanks, God bless!
Psalm 103:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
I hate to derail the thread (ha!) but I just had to tell you that your post was very helpful, poignant and relevant to me today. I wish I would have read it before preaching yesterday. Please keep it up! Lord bless you,
Refreshed
Praise the Lord!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.