Pope Francis condemns Catholic "Fanatics" about doctrinal clarity [Catholic Caucus]

Rorate Caeli | May 21, 2017 | Andrew Guersney

[ebb tide]

Below are excerpts from Pope Francis' Homily at Casa Santa Marta on Friday, May 19, 2017, on the same day as the speeches of the dubia signatories, Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Caffarra, at the Rome Life Forum. Is this Pope Francis' answer to the 'dubia' of the four cardinals?: 

“So we are faced with two groups of people. The group of the apostles who want to discuss the problem, and the others who go and create problems. They divide, they divide the Church, they say that what the Apostles preached is not what Jesus said, that it is not the truth.”

"There were many [councils], up until Vatican II, which clarified doctrine: for example, when we recite the Creed, it is the result of councils that have defined doctrine… It is a duty of the Church to clarify doctrine so that what Jesus said in the Gospels is better understood, what is the Spirit of the Gospels…. "

"But there were always those people who, without any commission, go about disturbing the Christian community with speeches that upset souls: "Eh, no, someone who says that is a heretic, you can’t say this, or that; this is the doctrine of the Church.’ And they are fanatics about things that are not clear, such as these fanatics who go about there, sowing discord in order to divide the Christian community. And this is the problem: when the doctrine of the Church, that which comes from the Gospel, that which the Holy Spirit inspires – because Jesus said, 'He will teach us and remind you of all that I have taught’ –  that doctrine becomes an ideology. And this is the great error of these people."

"We must not be frightened when we hear of the opinions of the ideologues of doctrine. The Church has its own Magisterium, the Magisterium of the Pope, of the Bishops, of the Councils, and we must go along the path that comes from the preaching of Jesus, and from the teaching and assistance of the Holy Spirit, it is always open, always free… this is the freedom of the Spirit, but in doctrine… doctrine unites, the councils always unite the Christian community… ideology divides… for them ideology is more important than doctrine: they leave aside the Holy Spirit."

"Today it falls to me to call for the grace of mature obedience to the Magisterium of the Church, that obedience to what the Church has always taught and continues to teach us…. it develops the Gospel, explains it better each time, in fidelity to Peter, the bishops, and ultimately, to the Holy Spirit who guides and supports this process… to pray also for those who transform doctrine into ideology, so that the Lord may give them the grace of conversion to the unity of the Church, to the Holy Spirit and to true doctrine."

Sources: Vatican Radio, "Pope Francis: doctrine unites, ideology divides," May 19, 2017, http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2017/05/19/pope_francis_doctrine_unites,_ideology_divides/1313444.

L'Osservatore Romano, ed. quotidiana, Anno CLVII, n.116, 20/05/2017, http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/it/cotidie/2017/documents/papa-francesco-cotidie_20170519_dottrina-e-ideologia.html

[Mr. K]

Are we sure he knows what religion he is part of?

[Mr. K]

I mean, we know he’s a socialist, so he’s incredibly stupid... but seriously??

[Rocky Mountain Wild Turkey]

Sowing confusion WITHOUT clarity causes the greatest discord of all...

Modernists gonna mod, mod, mod ...

{Disclaimer: Roman Catholic, here}

[Skywise]

And like a good little leftist the pope is projecting again.

Who is sowing discord? The Pope is. Who is pointing fingers at others for not following HIS edicts? The Pope.

Then he has the audacity here to sit and complain that people are too busy arguing over the law when they won’t follow his edicts because he’s just trying to do his job.

[OpusatFR]

Doctrine is not dogma. The confusion is coming from the pontiff’s arable garble conflating doctrine as dogma and vice verse.

[Cincinnatus.45-70]

I don’t see him being concerned about discord, so much as being concerned that all understand that doctrine is not necessarily to be accepted or believed.

When he finishes his work, the Roman Catholic Church will be as devoid of definite beliefs as the Episcopal Church. The only question is, is this Pope unaware of the decline of membership in the Episcopal Church, or is that his goal for the Roman Catholic Church?

[Engraved-on-His-hands]

It seems that he is saying that there are no absolutes—that the doctrine of the church is a “living document”, so to speak.

Bleh!

[Jamestown1630]

You understood what he said?

That bolded paragraph, especially, is impossible to parse..

It seems like everything this Pope says is a ‘moving target’.

[dangus]

Doesn’t seem to be an attack on the Cardinals’ insistence on doctrine. Instead, he seems to be insisting that the Cardinals have no reason to fear confusion, because the magisterium is clear about their concerns.

[PeterPrinciple]

This is an excerpt from a speech with an agenda, not the whole speech but..............

Lots of discussion about doctrine, around doctrine but no direction to a specific unless it is this:

The theology of the Catholic Church is based on natural law, canonical scripture, divine revelation, and sacred tradition, as interpreted authoritatively by the magisterium of the Catholic Church.[1][2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_theology

He is saying I am doctrine.

The one reference I can go to is here:

Jer 23:34 “If any prophet, priest, or anyone else says, ‘I have a prophecy from the LORD,’ I will punish that person along with his entire family.
Jer 23:35 You should keep asking each other, ‘What is the LORD’s answer?’ or ‘What is the LORD saying?’
Jer 23:36 But stop using this phrase, ‘prophecy from the LORD.’ For people are using it to give authority to their own ideas, turning upside down the words of our God, the living God, the LORD of Heaven’s Armies.
Jer 23:37 “This is what you should say to the prophets: ‘What is the LORD’s answer?’ or ‘What is the LORD saying?’

So, our proper response to this is “What does the LORD say?” So observe the response from the “prophet” and get your Bibles out to see what God says about the matter. This is not just a Catholic issue.

I would encourage readers to read in context the above reference. God says a lot about false prophets.

[Dajjal]

bumpus ad summum

[cherry]

are we moving towards a one earth so called "Christian" religion?....imagine the power behind that...

morphing all the beliefs of the Protestants and the Catholics and maybe even the Mormons into one...

first, agree that divorce and homosexuals and abortion are not "that" bad...

secondly, agree that priests can be homosexual, women can be priests, lesbians can be priests, and they all can marry....

this is what is happening...

we all gots to be one big happy family afterall...believing in nothing in particular except keep sending in money.

[ebb tide]

Please don’t mention other religions on Catholic Caucus threads.