Posted on 05/12/2017 7:10:58 AM PDT by Salvation
Do you realize the point you are making?
Ooo-ooo-oooo! That must have hurt!
I understand and don’t disagree, but I hope that others may read and understand. Thanks for your concern. I don’t expect to get through to them, but I hope God will.
I try my best to promote the teachings of Jesus and the Catholic Church.
It is frustrating when people have their minds already made up and not willing to look at other options, but someone needs to push back so that they may begin to open their eyes and possibly save their souls.
There is a lot of anti-Catholic attitudes (especially from lapsed Catholics) and a lot of hatred and self loathing. There are specific postings to antagonize Catholics and they all seem to state the same talking points as part of the protest chorus.
May God help me to only provide God’s Truth and spread the Good News.
You don’t even understand the Our Father.
We forgive our trespasses against us.
You post many opinions that are rehashed continually. They are unsupported.
So you agree that Jesus told His followers to eat His Flesh and Drink His Blood for eternal life? Those are inspired words from God in the New Testament.
However, you put a condition on Christ’s words and then say that there is an old testament rule that prohibits us from eating Christ’s flesh and blood.
I will believe and accept God’s word over your word.
Do you continue to reject God’s words and only accept your word?
I am not aware of anyone being charged with a crime for eating the flesh and blood of Jesus.
Since you are a baptized Catholic, you have probably received the Body and Blood of Christ as part of the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Did you believe back then, and have since changed your belief? Why?
So do you believe that your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees?
Of course. They only think they are. But if that thinking blocks the reception of sole fide, encourages false doctrine of unsupportable transubstantiation, and paves the broad path to Hell, both they and you will be held accountable by the Judge of All. According to Scripture.
Philippians 3:17-19 AV
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk
so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping,
that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame,
who mind earthly things.)
“Catholicism has substituted saints for specific gods, pagan worship for real worship.
Wherever did you get this idea?
One of your “Cardinals” quoted upthread - and of course history.
I am not familiar with the writings of this particular Cardinal, nor do I know what history you are referencing.
I do know this. The Catholic Church is very insistent that the adoration we give to God is to be given to God alone. The Baltimore Catechism was drilled into me when I was in grade school. It has this to say about the first commandment:
315. Q. What is the first Commandment?
A. The first Commandment is: I am the Lord thy God: thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.
316. Q. How does the first Commandment help us to keep the great Commandment of the love of God?
A. The first Commandment helps us to keep the great Commandment of the love of God because it commands us to adore God alone.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church puts it this way:
II. “Him Only Shall You Serve”
CCC 2095 The theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity inform and give life to the moral virtues. Thus charity leads us to render to God what we as creatures owe him in all justice. The virtue of religion disposes us to have this attitude.
Adoration
CCC 2096 Adoration is the first act of the virtue of religion. To adore God is to acknowledge him as God, as the Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists, as infinite and merciful Love. “You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve,” says Jesus, citing Deuteronomy. (Deut 6:4-5)
CCC 2097 To adore God is to acknowledge, in respect and absolute submission, the “nothingness of the creature” who would not exist but for God. To adore God is to praise and exalt him and to humble oneself, as Mary did in the Magnificat, confessing with gratitude that he has done great things and holy is his name. The worship of the one God sets man free from turning in on himself, from the slavery of sin and the idolatry of the world.
I have company coming and my bride wants help.
"The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church."(An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry 'Cardinal Newman' p.373)
I wasn't going to get into any thread about augmentation....lol
Nope.
What the Catholic church is saying is that Jesus commanded people to break the Law.
Jesus also said this about His words that would require people to break the Law.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Because the Law and God, are very specific about eating blood.
It is forbidden. It was forbidden before the Law was given, it was forbidden in the Law, and it was reiterated by the Holy Spirit after the Law was fulfilled in Jesus.
God says it's wrong and no amount of rationalization can make it right.
Therefore the Catholic church interpretation of the passage in John 6 is wrong.
Don't eat the blood, the life is in the blood
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Not my own righteousness, but yes, the righteousness credited to my account, imputed to me by God, when I got saved, does.
I am righteous IN CHRIST, clothed in HIS righteousness.
That is what allows me to stand in God's presence without guilt or fear of condemnation.
Cardinal Newman of all people.
ouch.....
How very twisty tailed satanic is your posting: “So you agree that Jesus told His followers to eat His Flesh and Drink His Blood for eternal life?” The followers referred to BY JESUS were the ones who turned away because they took the carnal perspective, just like you! You are profane ... you really believe you can eat eternal life to yourself at a catholic altar. And you wonder why we continue to oppose your catholiciism cult religion?
Oh, it will.It's one thing to be large, and another thing to be monolithic, and still another thing to claim to be totally right. But when Romanism is wrong, and shown to be so, it is monolithically wrong, and that is serious business. Humpty Dumpty is what's going on in Rome these days, and SSPX is only one ;manifestation of it.
I wish it could be seen that this RCC operation, threatening other Christian approaches with the solidarity of human-imposed "catholicism", which avowedly claims to be the proprieotor of the continuation of the Jewish religion, must of necessity inherit the blindness God has condemned the Israelites to suffer despite all the religious effort they expend, until the times of the Gentiles (the Church Age) is fulfilled:
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"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it,
and the rest were blinded
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see,
and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day" (Rom. 11:7,8 AV).
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So you see, BB, here on the FR RF they exemplify the same inescapable blindness of all religionists who try to earn their way to heaven, who seek God and do not find Him, who hope for a second chance after death (Purgatory), and attempt to gain spiritual rewards by performing works of supererogation (adding to what Christ has already done, so as to increase earthly and Heavenly rewards). But this figurative Tower of Babel they are building will be split up, leveled, and dispersed, simply because it is monolithic and hard, and brittle. But we are the election now, the remnant, for whom in this age as ever, salvation is by faith alone int the Messiah alone, figuratively washed of sins by His Shed Blood, whereas as a continuation of the now-dead Israelitish religion (which is RCC) cannot be saved by the works of the Law, no matter how hard they try. Take a note:
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"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee,
goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able
to graff them in again.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature
into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches,
be graffed into their own olive tree?
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part
is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom. 11:22-25 AV; see context for color).
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BB, the interpretation of this mystery is that after the pre-Tribulation sudden departure of the elect (which is us), those clinging to the Israelitish Romanism will be left here to suffer during the time of Jacob's Trouble. But--and get this--because their claim to inheritance is FALSE, the Jews will reject them as they always have, even though one of them, a Jew (and perhaps a Pope) will arise as the Antichrist, and the Roman Church professing Christness, but now after the Rapture clearly not possessing the qualities of the Christ, will be shattered, splintered, and done away with.
Look at the prediction of John the Beloved:
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"He(God) hath blinded their eyes(figuratively their minds), and hardened(calloused) their heart;
that they should not see with their eyesintelligence, nor understand with their heartexercise agape love, and be converted,
and I should heal them.
These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him" (Jn. 12:40 AV)
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The blindness of the mind comes from the word "tuplo-o", which means darkness as with the eyes, so figuratively with the mind. They cannot know by experience the deep things of God, because those things are foolishness to them. Their intelligence does not extend to seeing the things of the Spirit, so they misinterpret the Scripture they foolishly believe and claim to have written.
But the Mystery of the "Blindness" like that of Israel, described in Romans 11:25 is "porosis" (noun), coming from the verb "poro-o", which means to create a thick hard impenetrable covering by repeated abrasion and contusion, like the callouses in a ditch-digger's hands from shoveling, or corns on one's feet from poorly-made, ill-fitting shoes.
And that is the same word used in John 12:40 describing "hardness" of the heart. Exactly the same word. Their repeated exposure to false, damaging doctrines arising from mental darkness, develops an impenetrable hardness of the heart, an obdurate resistance of the kind that makes it impossible to transmit truths to them by forensic methods (debating, applying logic in a biblical way). They are therefore incapable of spiritual discernment. All the King's believing disciples cannot get through BECAUSE GOD HAS MADE THEM BLIND.
What one takes away from this is that the incontroveritble hardness of their heart and continual rebuffing by sincerely motivated and Biblically correct pleaders, only serves to build more calluses, as the Msgr. Pope has indicated in the article.
There is a danger to believers to be engaged in verbal flame wars with unbelievers! If a regenerated person descends to persistently engage in too much use of the convincement tools of illogic, the fallacies that do not really convert, we may get in the way of the Holy Spirit's convicting processes, as well as becoming too tough ourselves to respond in a Christ-like compassionate way.
Yes, we need to put on the aromor of God,and do battle, without becoming so tough that no one will recognize us as compassionate when we do wield the Sword of the Spirity, which is the "hrema," the Spoken word of God.
We need to advise ourselves to desist from such heathenish methods, for they do not convert, they only harden the opposition, to whom God has already hardened their hearts, as He did with Pharaoh. God did permit this by allowing Pharaoh to, through sinful oppositionally defiant choices, to harden his own heart beyond retrievability.
God can, and might, remove someone, one of us, the elect, though saved with eternal life, to end the time here by illness or death, but who is getting in the way of His ongoing program of salvation. He's not really greatly concerned about our temporary physical death, other than it may cut short our earthly usefulness to Him.
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"Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?
Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?
It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from this withdraw not thine hand:
for he that feareth God shall come forth of them all" (Eccl. 7:16,17,18 AV).
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I hope that is clear? But thanks for your patience and encouragement, BB!
* * * * * * *
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Thank you for pointing me to this essay. It looks interesting. Did you read the preface to this edition? In it, Newton states that the essay was written to explain certain difficulties in the history of the Catholic religion that he himself at one time felt, and to show that, upon examination, these difficulties, instead of telling to their disadvantage, actually constitute an argument in their favor.
So, sure, you are going to find many difficulties in the history of the Church mentioned in this essay. But the conclusion in the essay, rather than being a criticism of Catholic doctrine, is actually a defense of Catholic doctrine.
So while conceding your point that many of the practices may be of pagan origin, the Church does not make gods out of the saints and the worship that is given to the One true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, is given to God alone.
I am aware of the Cardinal’s spin on these things. He could do no other without denying half the teachings of the church.
Here is the normal progression of catholic response:
Our traditions come directly from the Apostles.
There are no customs or beliefs from paganism!
Prove it!
(Demonstrated by quoting your leaders)
Well, yes it has some pagan origins.
When you think about it, it is fine
Paganism practices are perfectly fine and beautiful in the church.
In other words, Catholics care more about their cherished (pagan sourced) traditions and practices, than truth.
Indeed the church has elevated the saints into a pantheon of demigods, with Mary as the highest rank of demigoddess, spouse of God the Father.
This too is pagan in origin.
“I am righteous IN CHRIST, clothed in HIS righteousness.”
Amen! Glory to Him alone!
So you continue to reject the words (TRUTH) of Jesus and subject them to your personal opinion? You are calling Jesus a liar as you ignore His words.
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”
“Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.”
Since you are a baptized Catholic, you have probably received the Body and Blood of Christ as part of the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Did you believe back then, and have since changed your belief? Why?
You claim to have faith in Jesus, but from your comments you reject the Truth from Jesus, so is your faith superficial?
God’s Peace be with you.
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