Posted on 08/09/2016 4:59:36 PM PDT by marshmallow
The German theologian Karl-Heinz Menke – one of the members of the new papal commission on female deacons – said in a 4 August 2016 interview with the German newspaper Die Welt that female cardinals are possible if that is what Pope Francis wishes.
The retired professor of theology – who also was appointed in 2014 by Pope Francis to be a member of the International Theological Commission – points out in this interview that it is out of the question to make women ordained deaconesses because it would mean that they would become part of the three-fold Sacrament of Holy Orders which applies to bishops, priests and deacons.
Professor Menke also shows that female deacons in the past merely filled charitable positions within the Church which have now been largely taken up by religious orders, at least in the West. Female deacons in the East, according to Menke, are still only performing charitable acts.
Thus, Menke says, female deacons would still be excluded from the higher role of ordained deacons and would thereby still feel “being put behind.”
Without being more specific, the German theologian sees it as a possibility to allow women “to perform baptisms,” and “to assist at funerals and marriages,” because these parts “are not necessarily, but only factually, bound to the recipients of the Sacrament of Holy Orders.” Menke continues:
(Excerpt) Read more at thewandererpress.com ...
Can you tell me where the so called carnidals are even biblical? Pure paganism.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:19
Of course! In Francischurch, Francis gets whatever he wants, e.g., Holy Communion for unrepentant adulterers.
Francis has stacked the deck, once again, in his favor.
Is a Christian pope at risk?
Yup, mafia *racket masquerading as a religious order, as far removed from godliness, as The Godfather.
Domino go stick’em up, domino go frisk’em
*well known criminal racket facts:
Vatican has been convicted by Italian Justice dept for illegally laundering and hiding MILLIONS of Euros of mafia money.
Vatican hid MILLIONS of Euros of Holocaust victims assets and resisted disclosure for decades
Vatican directs International Catholic Refugee Services to encourage Muslim refugee invasions in Europe, the USA and Canada, because the RCC profits MILLIONS of Euros and dollars paid out to them by governments acting against the will of their citizens.
Vatican obfuscated reporting THOUSANDS of pedophile priests, sheltered them internationally, enabled the ongoing sodomization of child victims, and thwarted justice of criminal convictions to stop priest abuse of children.
Very saintly, no?
RE: “Can you tell me where the so called carnidals are even biblical? Pure paganism.”
With this bozo, plus the six females and the three Jesuits that Francis has selected for this committee of thirteen, the die has been cast.
The Catholic Church will never have female priests; to do so would question the judgment of Jesus Himself (an omniscient God would know that 2,000 years later His selection of 12 men would be debated).
Francis just dangles this BS out there because bad publicity is better than no publicity at all; he cannot change the decision of Christ.
The deacon-talk is just BS; the “permanent deaconate” is just recent feel-good nonsense to let married men “play priest”. IIRC, they are required to live “as brother and sister” with their wives (which is why the consent of the wife is required). Real deacons and priests have little patience for these fake priests...
Well of course.
Otherwise, how ya’ gonna get baby cardinals.
I agree. But in FrancisChurch, anything goes in his church.
As Pope Francis has earlier said, “We Catholics have some — and not some, many — who believe they possess the absolute truth and go ahead dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil. They do evil. I say this because it is my Church.”
We’ve had bad Popes before; the faith will survive Francis the Mealy-Mouthed. It will just be the much smaller Church envisioned by Christ, not “of this world”...
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Didn't think so.
A church office or structure doesn't have to be specifically mentioned in the Bible to be legitimate.
If you doubt this, try looking up these words in your Biblical concordance:
Pope Francis pretty much mothballed the title of "Monseignor". Someday it's possible we wouldn't have "Cardinals" at all. The Bishop of Rome could be chosen by casting lots, by choosing straws, or by electronic voting with ballots cast by every registered parishioner on earth. Not likely, but possible.
Most of the "religious orders" that every existed in the Catholic Church, don't exist now; but new ones are getting organized all the time.
It's all based on need and charism.
Much like the ever-evolving Protestant and Evangelical ministries, in that regard.
Once again, you tendentiously present things Pope Francis never said.
Pure paganism? You wish. Study the Bible for two hours a day for ten years while learning Greek, Latin and Hebrew. Then get back to me.
“[T]hey would become part of the three-fold Sacrament of Holy Orders.” It will never happen. The Father is more sneaky than us weak and fallible humans realize.
For instance: "permanent diaconate" is just married men playing priest? You are uninformed. Deacons do not have functions reserved for the ministerial priesthood, specifically celebrating Mass (consecrating the Eucharist), Penance/Reconciliation, and Anointing: the latter two involve the power to absolve a penitent in the name of Christ.
You think married deacons and their wives are vowed to sexual continence (abstinence)? This is not so. The Church does not require abstinence from marital sexuality for married clergy.
You coulda looked it up. " Real deacons and priests have little patience for these fake priests..."
Married permanent deacons are not fake priests; and I have observed for decades that they have the sincere respect and love of bishops, priests, and the laity as well. Since the restoration of the permanent diaconate in 1970, I've never been in a parish that didn't need and appreciate --- even treasure --- its deacons.
I don't know you personally, of course, and I can only evaluate what you choose to manifest. Your post suggests that you're into defamation. It's not a good thing.
Once again, you are bearing false witness against me.
“For your own peace of mind, I have to tell you that everything that is written in the exhortation [Amoris Laetitia] – and here I refer to the words of a great theologian who once was a secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Schönborn, who presented it [Amoris Laetitia] – everything is Thomistic, from the beginning to the end.”, Pope Francis.
And here’s what Schönborn had to say about AL,
“Of course, he [Francis] speaks about “irregular” situations because, objectively, there are irregular situations: When people live together without marriage, it’s irregular. When people divorce and remarry, it’s an irregular situation; but this is one side.
“What Pope Francis shows very clearly is that all families, even those that are “regular,” need God’s mercy, need God’s help. All families, whether regular or in difficult situations, are on the way to perfection, on the way to holiness; all need steps, all need perfection, all need pardon and forgiveness.”
“It ... can no longer simply be said that all those in any ‘irregular’ situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace,” states the pontiff at one point in the document, released by the Vatican Friday.”
“It is reductive simply to consider whether or not an individual’s actions correspond to a general law or rule, because that is not enough to discern and ensure full fidelity to God in the concrete life of a human being,” the pope writes later.
“Discernment must help to find possible ways of responding to God and growing in the midst of limits,” states Francis. “By thinking that everything is black and white, we sometimes close off the way of grace and of growth, and discourage paths of sanctification which give glory to God.”
305. For this reason, a pastor cannot feel that it is enough simply to apply moral laws to those living in “irregular” situations, as if they were stones to throw at people’s lives. This would bespeak the closed heart of one used to hiding behind the Church’s teachings, “sitting on the chair of Moses and judging at times with superiority and superficiality difficult cases and wounded families”. Along these same lines, the International Theological Commission has noted that “natural law could not be presented as an already established set of rules that impose themselves a priori on the moral subject; rather, it is a source of objective inspiration for the deeply personal process of making decisions”. Because of forms of conditioning and mitigating factors, it is possible that in an objective situation of sin – which may not be subjectively culpable, or fully such – a person can be living in God’s grace, can love and can also grow in the life of grace and charity, while receiving the Church’s help to this end.
351 In certain cases, this can include the help of the sacraments. Hence, “I want to remind priests that the confessional must not be a torture chamber, but rather an encounter with the Lord’s mercy” (Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium [24 November 2013], 44: AAS 105 [2013], 1038). I would also point out that the Eucharist “is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak” (ibid., 47: 1039).
The German hierarchy is totally falling apart.
It seems like just a weak attempt to keep lay men going to Mass; the discussion regarding women as deacons is more of the same. When playing “Eucharistic Minister” just doesn’t cut it, they kick it up a notch; why are lay people still distributing Communion when we have “permanent deacons”?
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