Posted on 07/06/2016 8:06:36 AM PDT by ebb tide
Not at all muslimish.
On your part, very ignorantish.
Our priest turned around at the beginning of lent and never turned back. We’ve had temporary communion rails for the past three years. After years of moving around and so many strange churches, I feel like I hit the jackpot! Ha! He is a wonderful young man. We are blessed!
Actually, no. The priest (and people) faces east because that is traditionally the direction from which we expect Christ to return.
And that is biblical.
What a blessing!
I can't begin to explain to you how much thought process that short quote has charged my mind ...
Thank you
There are multiple layers of meaning to an eastward orientation.
Most important, it’s nothing to do with geography on earth. It’s not like facing Mecca or any spatial point.
Rather it is facing the Lord, Who is coming again. The Bible says his coming will be like “lightning from east to west,” which envisions looking toward the eastern skies.
Second, Jesus is prophesied Biblically as the Sun of Justice. The sun rises in the East, therefore facing east we think of His resurrection, and His coming again with justice and judgment.
Third, it represents enlightenment. Scripture says, “ In the tender compassion of our God, the dawn from on high shall break upon us...”. Dawn = Light = East.
Hope this helps
There must be some really radical stuff coming down the tubes towards us for him to allow this to go forward. What's he up to? Is he tossing a bone to the "ultra-conservatives"?
Is this fool turning into the Muslim Pope?
See #26.
I wouldn’t believe it for a second. Bone tossing. And most will jump at those bones expecting so-called major changes down the pike.
He’s no fool.
Yes.
But most Catholics are afraid to go there. It's seen as "too radical" because of the language barrer, etc. Hence the piecemeal approach.
Are the “conservative” prelates now pushing a “hybrid”?
They probably wouldn't see it as a hybrid, and frankly neither do I, because that would require the Novus Ordo to be a legitimate established variation that can be hybridized, rather than just a tissue of liturgical abuses strung together.
The liturgical battle takes place on two fronts: one of which is to simply correct the abuses, which is what His Eminence is suggesting here.
Meanwhile the TLM is growing and eventually people will, I think, return to the only sensible option which is the traditional Roman Mass in Latin and in English. Similar to the '65 "Missal", or the Anglican Ordinariate Mass.
John 4:20-24
“Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”21Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22“You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23“But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
First the meaning of "like lightening from east to west" does not mean that all lightening travels from east to west. It means it is evident no matter where you are. The whole sky is lit up by lightening.
Second, Jesus is prophesied Biblically as the Sun of Justice. The sun rises in the East, therefore facing east we think of His resurrection, and His coming again with justice and judgment.
The prophecy declares that the Sun of Justice will rise with healing in its rays. It is a metaphor. It does not teach a direction for worship.
Biblically, this would only have meaning, if you are in Israel.
Third, it represents enlightenment. Scripture says, “ In the tender compassion of our God, the dawn from on high shall break upon us...”. Dawn = Light = East.
"represents" = made up.
No literal dawn is in the passage. It is a metaphor.
I’m post-Vat 2 also and remember well being puzzled in grade school when the teachers told us the priest “had his back to the people”! It sounded silly. Now I go to the Latin Mass almost exclusively, and I agree 100% with Cardinal Sarah.
With Ad Orientem, we all—priest and people—face God together.
Nowhere is this more evident to me than during the Second Confiteor of the Latin Mass.
The Eucharist has just been consecrated. The priest is facing the tabernacle. Now the time comes for him to give a mini-absolution to the people. So watch carefully
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vVu0Z1gHEE
Instead of just turning around and putting his back to Christ on the altar, the priest does this half-turn, puts his left hand on the altar, and gives the blessing. It’s like he never forgets Who is on that altar. He turns because has has to, but he is still oriented toward Christ on the altar.
Ad Orientem is something that’s best appreciated in person. If you can find a Latin Mass or even an Ordinariate Mass near you, by all means go as often as you can. It might be confusing and disorienting in the beginning, but I’ll be very surprised if you don’t come to appreciate it eventually.
How perfectly reductionist.
Have you no sense of symbolism? No sense of deep, rich layers of metaphor all harmoniously coming together to convey a single truth that is larger than any of our puny minds? Stick doggedly and ruthlessly to your cold logic of rooting out whatever is "not required" in worship and you miss the complexity, the beauty of what generations of Christians have added.
Why NOT associate Christ with the rising sun? With the dawn? With the East? Why NOT worship with your body and head and posture as well as your brain and heart?
Christ said worship is spirit and truth - not geography. Your quarrel is with Him.
Have you no sense of symbolism?
Yes, if God declares it. Your explanation was just made up and can mean whatever you want it to mean - especially since you took a single verse out of the context God put it into and from the people He declared it to.
No sense of deep, rich layers of metaphor all harmoniously coming together to convey a single truth that is larger than any of our puny minds?
Actually, yes. Scripture is all that. You added to it to make it into a teaching that isn't there.
Stick doggedly and ruthlessly to your cold logic of rooting out whatever is "not required" in worship and you miss the complexity, the beauty of what generations of Christians have added.
And I take that as an honest assessment of the issue. Your standard in this discussion appears to be defending what was added, instead of accepting what God provided. What He said is enough.
Why NOT associate Christ with the rising sun? With the dawn? With the East? Why NOT worship with your body and head and posture as well as your brain and heart?
Why not continue to add pagan rituals, instead of "cold" teaching from God's Word - like costumes and worldly symbols? Why not bow before graven images? They add richness. Why not begin sacrificing animals? It adds a greater dimension to see the blood. All of these are acceptable, once your standard is "why not?" Once you accept whatever accretion of paganism has contributed, you are no longer on the singular ground of authoritative truth.
And did he declare to you precisely what He meant by "worship in spirit and truth," so that you are authoritatively able to prescribe that to other believers?
It's funny how evangelicals are all for "Christian liberty," unless it's the liberty to worship the way the Catholic church has worshipped for 2000 years. *That* liberty isn't allowed, and adding *that* particular proscription to the Bible is apparently perfectly acceptable.
There are things from paganism that cannot be brought into Christian worship because they are directed toward false gods or are immoral per se.
But there are also things that pagans did that are theologically neutral. Pagans prayed. Pagans sang hymns. Pagans wore wedding rings. Pagans used special liturgical languages. And they often prayed toward the East.
If you can’t tell the difference between directing such things to a demon and directing them to the Triune God, I would suggest that you have very little of substance to contribute to this thread.
Also Christ is from the east. The sun rises from the east.
***Are Communion Rails on the way back. I think so.***
I pray so. Never had the opportunity to experience it. That, and an end to the Eucharistic ministers during Mass would be fantastic.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.