Posted on 02/10/2016 11:13:33 AM PST by Jan_Sobieski
Yes, very good!
After all, the Bible is pretty supernatural...
This is a specious comparison even on its face, because the Bible, even just the OT, is far larger than the Qur’an, which is about the size of the NT.
In addition, the record of Biblical violence is within historical context, enabling a theology on it, and is limited to certain peoples or cultures in the area, versus the bare disjointed suras of the Qur’an and its broad unlimited exhortations to kill unbelievers.
In addition, the wars of conquest in Scripture were preceded by such manifest supernatural attestation that it left no doubt as to who was giving the orders, vs. some visions in the night to a non-prophetical “prophet”.
His software is probably flawed by interpreting “peace” as God’s peace, instead of “the absence of conflict”. In Izlum, “peace” comes only through submission, by any means. So, every passage mentioning peace is one that is enabled by war and conquest.
Garbage In-Garbage Out
>>Yahweh was indeed a violent, genocidal deity, the stick for which apparently the NT God is the carrot.
Arrgh. That’s like nails on a blackboard.
It’s just that the Bible travels in the direction away from violence towards peace; whereas the quran’s unchronological books, if put in chronological order, move from coexistence to slaughter and/or oppression of anyone who doesn’t submit to islam, as a prescription for living.
Significant difference.
That is misleading and is not a valid comparison with the Allah of the Qur'an. For God first made it unmistakably evident that He was real and omnipotent, and the valid life and law-giver, and saved a vast multitude of oppressed people, and gave them laws designed to save life (even of slaves).
The peoples He later commanded to be destroyed in wars of conquests were engaged in terminal viral destructive iniquity, but restricted to geographical and ethnic lines, and these and other instances of violence are provided within historical context and often narratives whereby a theology on violence can be formed. And by annihilating such God prevented replication, while saving the innocent (to Heaven) from suffering the eternal fate of the wicked.
There are other records of violence besides wars of conquests, not all of which equates to sanction, and the Bible at over 788,000 words vs. the Qur'an at about 78,000 words provides far far more material on violence as well as love, a word that only appears about 70 times in the Qur'an, vs, about 400 in the Bible.
Likewise the Lord Jesus warned of the angels of God separating the wicked from the just, and of eternal damnation, but stated that His kingdom was not of this world, otherwise His subjects would fight with the sword of men, which the NT church never did and theologically rejects. (Jn. 18:36; cf. 2Co. 6:4-10; 10:3,4; Eph. 6:12)
In contrast the god of Islam was one whom Muhammad simply had visions of, which he suspected might have been demonic, and it exhortations to religious violence appeared in disjointed suras which lack context, and are basically broad, while anything close to the NT abrogation of rel violence is seen in Muhammad's preMedenic suras, while he was a minority in Mecca, and make of the smaller part of the Qur'an. And in contrast to the Lord Jesus, Muhammad commanded his subjects to engage in rel. violence, which he himself exampled.
Thus to be devout follower of Christ, one cannot engage in religious wars of conquest and kill theological foes, while devout followers of Muhammad are to, if both basically read their respective books as literally as they example.
Deuteronomy 4:19 and Malachi 1:11. There’s nothing even remotely similar to these in the quran.
Case closed.
Good point!
Totally agree with you, and I am not by any means questioning or criticizing the sovereignty or holiness or justness of the Almighty. I was just answering the question posed by the other poster.
And yet, in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 Paul tells us that "ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect (complete), thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
The first half or the second??
That's NOTHING compared to the Book of MORMON!!
Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.
1 And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the awords which Ether had spoken unto him.
2 He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.
3 He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul amourned and refused to be bcomforted.
4 And it came to pass that he wrote an epistle unto Shiz, desiring him that he would spare the people, and he would give up the kingdom for the sake of the lives of the people.
5 And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.
6 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.
7 And when Coriantumr saw that he was about to fall he fled again before the people of Shiz.
8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.
9 And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.
10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.
11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.
12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.
13 And it came to pass that Ether did abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.
14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.
15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with aweapons of war, having shields, and bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.
16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.
17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.
18 And it came to pass that Coriantumr wrote again an epistle unto Shiz, desiring that he would not come again to battle, but that he would take the kingdom, and spare the lives of the people.
19 But behold, the aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and bSatan had full power over the chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.
20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.
21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.
22 And when the night came they were adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.
23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.
24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.
25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.
26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.
27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.
28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.
29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.
30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.
31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
32 And it came to pass that aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.
33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he afinished his brecord; (and the chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.
34 Now the last words which are written by aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15
And yet the BOOK says...
Ether 14:22
And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the worms of the flesh.
Some have stated the following more or else; I will put it my way:
The Bible is both a description and a prescription. The Left deliberately equates the two.
Incest, rape, adultery, murder are all in the Bible - and often committed by flawed believers. It shows us the truth of Man’s sinful nature. It also shows us the remedy: the expiation through a sinless savior, absolutely the opposite of the supposed “perfect man” who was a pedophilic, murdering tyrant.
Good point! I went to Palmyra New York and Cumorrah hill and tried to find some evidence. The caretakers of the Mormon facilities said that they had none...not yet. Quite a battle for no archaeological evidence...
Sure, I just thought I would add. ;-)
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