Posted on 10/04/2015 5:22:00 PM PDT by markomalley
Cardinal Kasper has taken to using the "F" word in criticizing some of his opponents on the question of divorce and civil remarriage. It seems that they are “fundamentalists”, not appreciating the context of the biblical text they employ and not understanding how the teaching of Jesus was adapted in the early Church to fit new situations.
The fact is, though, that not everyone who disagrees with Cardinal Kasper is a fundamentalist.
Benedict XVI is hardly a fundamentalist. The mainstream of theological opposition to Kasper's proposal is hardly fundamentalist. True, Kasper's critics take seriously the New Testament teaching, including the teaching of Jesus himself, about the nature of marriage, divorce, and remarriage. But surely Cardinal Kasper does not expect us to equate taking Jesus and the New Testament seriously with fundamentalism.
Perhaps Cardinal Kasper worries that some of his critics quote chapter and verse against him as if texts can, without context, settle the debate. One might ask, though, whether he regards all of his critics as simple Bible thumpers. If not, why does he choose to focus on the fundamentalists, rather on the more substantial critics who know their way around the biblical texts as well as the contexts in which they appear? It makes it seem as if he doesn’t want to face objections in their strongest form.
What’s more, while it’s true that Jesus’ teaching regarding the adulterous nature of remarriage of divorcees was qualified by the early Church, as she, guided by the Spirit, made important distinctions, that doesn’t amount to a blank check for revision. Most Catholic revisionists acknowledge this point in theory, but they don’t always attend to it in practice, when it comes to making the case for change.
Yes, it seems the early Church clarified that certain things that may have looked like “marriages” (e.g., unions within the bounds of consanguinity), upon reflection, weren’t true marriages and therefore Jesus’ teaching about divorce and remarriage didn’t apply in those cases because, well, those cases didn’t involve marriages. That seems to be the consensus of modern biblical scholarship on the point. In other words, this seems to be the import of the “except for porneia” parenthetic comment included in Jesus’ teaching as recounted in Matthew 19:9. (The Revised New American Bible renders this “unless the marriage is unlawful, while the Revised Standard Version: Catholic Edition renders it “except for unchastity”.)
The words of Jesus, if taken at face value and not properly contextualized, and not understood in light of deeper reflection, might seem to some people to have been rejected by the qualification “unless the marriage is unlawful” or “except for unchastity” in Matthew’s gospel, or by the later practice of the Church. And yet this is not the case. The Church, led by the Holy Spirit, has clarified and deepened her awareness of the teaching of Jesus and applied that clearer understanding to her practice.
But from this fact it simply doesn’t follow that any and every proposed “deeper understanding” amounts to a deeper understanding rather than a betrayal of the Lord’ teaching. Cardinal Kasper would acknowledge as much. If Cardinal Kasper’s point is merely that we shouldn’t be hasty in dismissing proposals as contrary to Jesus’ teaching, I think many of his critics would agree. They haven’t been hasty, they would say. The last two thousand years of reflection doesn’t amount to a hasty dismissal. What’s more, more recent theological reflection, and not simply rot repetition of received theological maxims, is involved here.
Cardinal Kasper, they contend, does more than caution against being hasty. He makes a proposal that his thoughtful critics have found, upon careful reflection, to be something other than a deeper insight into the teaching of the Lord. They have criticized aspects of his proposal as contrary to a thoughtful, critical engagement of the Lord’s words. Such critics include none other than Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI, who once entertained an openness to many of the ideas in Cardinal Kasper’s proposal, but changed his mind, after more careful reflection.
Now of course Kasper thinks the critics are nevertheless mistaken. That conclusion does not justify, however, his use of the F-word to characterize his opponents. It doesn’t warrant his acting as if nuanced, critical theological reflection happens only on his side of the debate and that his opponents are unthinking Bible thumpers or rigid, thoughtless advocates of the status quo.
Such a tactic seems more appropriate to a partisan and a polemicist than to a thoughtful, faithful contemporary theologian who is a Cardinal of the Catholic Church.
Is he trying to make the case that the Bible doesn’t say what the Bible says?
That Cardinal has a stern look.
He sounds like an Obama Supreme Court appointee.
Well, the King of Kings doesn’t give His consent.
This is a slippery slope! If you start examining Catholic Doctrine in light of what the Bible actually says, then you could end up with a Reformation! Only this time it would be good to get rid of all the Babylonian Mysteries and Doctrines.
But they won’t do it. We are watching the final formation of Scarlet Woman Riding the Scarlet Beast.
Revelation 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying ato me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
2 “with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”
3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.
5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
Nelson, Thomas (2009-02-18). Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 1197). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.
beware of false prophets
wolves in sheep clothing
Neither Satan nor Satan’s children will destroy the Church that Jesus built on Peter, to whom Jesus gave the keys of the Kingdom. Satan’s greatest tool has been division (”divide and conquer”).
Francis has already spoken the “F” word many times regarding his fellow Catholics.
The apple (of Francis’ eye) doesn’t fall far from the tree.
let me get this straight.
In the interest of unity... we are suppose to embrace the muslims, the hindu’s, the atheists, the sodomites, and anyone and everyone BUT the people who actually wish to follow Christs teachings?
Long ago, Kasper denied the historicity of Jesus Christ’s Resurrection.
That doesn’t phase Francis, however.
You can’t possibly look at the history of the Catholic Church and think that it has followed the Gospel of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ. Please, read your Bible and Pray that you are not appointed to the Wrath of the Lamb. There is always a remnant! Be part of it! Maranatha!
You can't possibly think otherwise or else you haven't been paying attention. For 1,600 years, all Christians were Catholic....then along came the revolutionaries and decided that whatever they liked was the new truth.....it wasn't,.... your interpretation of biblical teaching differs from untold billions of past Christians and are just that.....your opinions....sad.
OK Remember: DON’T TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST!
You are absolutely correct! The Catholic Church has maintained its teaching since before the Bible was compiled! In fact the teachings of the Catholic Church started about 2167 BC in Babylon!
Two key figures in the origin of Christmas are Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah, and his mother and wife, Semiramis, also known as Ishtar and Isis. Nimrod, known in Egypt as Osiris, was the founder of the first world empire at Babel, later known as Babylon (Genesis 10:8-12; 11:1-9). From ancient sources such as the “Epic of Gilgamesh” and records unearthed by archaeologists from long-ruined Mesopotamian and Egyptian cities, we can reconstruct subsequent events.
After Nimrod’s death (c. 2167 BC), Semiramis promoted the belief that he was a god. She claimed that she saw a full-grown evergreen tree spring out of the roots of a dead tree stump, symbolizing the springing forth of new life for Nimrod. On the anniversary of his birth, she said, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts under it. His birthday fell on the winter solstice at the end of December.
A few years later, Semiramis bore a son, Horus or Gilgamesh. She declared that she had been visited by the spirit of Nimrod, who left her pregnant with the boy. Horus, she maintained, was Nimrod reincarnated. With a father, mother, and son deified, a deceptive, perverted trinity was formed.
Semiramis and Horus were worshiped as “Madonna and child.” As the generations passed, they were worshiped under other names in different countries and languages. Many of these are recognizable: Fortuna and Jupiter in Rome; Aphrodite and Adonis in Greece; and Ashtoreth/Astarte and Molech/Baal in Canaan.
http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/388/Nimrod.htm
Whatever that post means....sounds like grasping at straws...we are discussing Christianity, because there were goddesses, strange couples, unusual figures, false doctrines throughout history means nothing....Judeo-Christian history is all that we are concerned about, not ancient Greeks.
Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is in the Catholic Bible. You can find it here: http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Revelation&ch=17&v=74017001 Now if you believe that this has all happened already and we are currently being ruled with an iron rod by Jesus Christ, then you are not paying attention.
Revelation 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
2 “with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”
3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of bher fornication.
5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 I saw the woman, drunk †with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
8 “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
10 “There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
11 “The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.
13 “These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
14 “These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”
15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.
16 “And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17 “For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
18 “And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
Nelson, Thomas (2009-02-18). Holy Bible, New King James Version (NKJV) (p. 1197). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.
For two thousand years there have been problems in the Church, if you took all the humans out everything would be fine. We have had problematic people attempting to lead us astray before and we will again. It is our own fault for having should leaders as we do not pray and fast enough. We remain in the Church because it is the one that Our Lord established. We have been warned about the current problems for a hundred years, not all of us are caught unaware.
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