Posted on 09/05/2015 10:15:40 AM PDT by Salvation
“Source please”
See post 31 for his own words on the vaticans own website
Au contraire Salvation, check out http://badvestments.blogspot.com/
Bad taste in vestments and church architecture isn’t confined to Catholics.
aMorePerfectUnion, Sorry, the comment was meant for you not Salvation. Most of the vestments shown regardless of denomination are hideous.
Actually, what is interesting is that there is in fact A LOT of unity on essential issues among protestants. Divisions are almost entirely on secondary issues.
…and conversely, there is a lot of disagreement within the Catholic church. In the Philippines, Catholics like to get themselves crucified and whipped, in the US, Catholics find it abhorrent.
There is little at all in the New Testament about the governing structure of the church for good reason….. it isn’t important. We are given freedom to organize according to what works best in a given culture or society. CHRISTianity is not about the church, it’s about CHRIST, that’s why it isn’t called CHURCHIANITY.
“Jesus Christ, first, last and always.”
” Most of the vestments shown regardless of denomination are hideous.”
Even worse, unBiblical for the NT Church.
That statement is simply not true.
Here are the statements of faith for several denominations or independent churches for anyone to peruse for themselves to see what kind of "divisions" there are within "Protestantism" (as the term is used by Catholics to describe anyone not Catholic).
Statements of faith for different churches
Assemblies of God
http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/index.cfm#
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
http://arpchurch.org/documents/confession-of-faith/
Calvary Chapel
http://calvarychapel.com/home/about/
The Christian and Missionary Alliance
http://www.cmalliance.org/about/history/
Elim Fellowship Churches
http://www.elimfellowship.org/about-us/statement-of-faith/
The Father's House
http://tfhny.org/the-house/what-we-believe/
Osais LA
http://www.oasisla.org/about/what-we-believe/
Presbyterian Church in Americahttp://www.pcaac.org/resources/wcf/
United Reformed church in North America https://www.urcna.org/sysfiles/site_uploads/custom_public/custom2642.pdf
Westside Christian Fellowship
http://westsidechristianfellowship.org/about-wcf/statement-of-faith/
>>That statement is simply not true.
As I said in my post: “Even if Protestants disagree, we all look to Jesus as the answer. If I am Calvinist and my friend is Arminian and we have significant differences on many theological issues, the article overlooks the fact that we both look to Christ and hear the counsel of the Holy Spirit. I do not think that Calvin saves me or condemns my friend. He does not think that Arminius or Wesley saves him or condemns me. So, our differences do not matter.”
What are you trying to show in that lasting of statements of faith? Are you saying that they do agree in the important things or that they disagree?
And in the end, we all, every single last one of us, answer to JESUS and Jesus alone.
“There are a billion or a billion and a half Catholics in the world. A vast number of these are good and decent people. Critics should stop hating them because they are Catholic.”
I don’t hate a single catholic. Not a one. In fact, I love many.
The institution? Different topic. It need major changes to get back to the Gospel of Grace and away from works that never bring salvation. I post on open threads to point out what is Biblically missing from these puff pieces.
Best.
That they agree.
Salvation by grace through faith in Christ as evidenced in a changed life.
Baptism is encouraged but not required for salvation.
There’s a little difference in the tongues thing, but that’s not significant whether someone does or doesn’t.
>>That they agree.
Good! I was a Methodist before I become a Calvinist. I’ve been at both ends of Protestantism and I know that they agree on the fundamentals of the Christian faith. The Roman Catholic idea that we are almost at war with one another is just silly, but it is what they want their parishioners to hear.
I've asked them repeatedly to show me even a 2-3 of those differences on verses of their choice and don't get any takers.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
35,000 different interpretations and they can't even show me 2 or 3?
It's all just to try to discredit non-Catholics.
The big question I have, is without someone to be the final authority on something, how does anybody know a particular belief is true?
For example, there is the truth and not the truth. Either Christ’s church on Earth is true or not true. If everybody is on their own to make that determination, and believe it is done by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, does everybody thus know the truth?
The answer is no. A person is a member of a religious tradition because it believes that tradition teaches the truth to the exclusion of others.
A serious Presbyterian is not Baptist because they don’t believe as Baptists believe. There may be similarities, and some shared beliefs, but in the end, a person chooses one over the other.
Starting at Matthew 16:18, Peter is specifically called out among the Apostles. We then see him in the Council of Jerusalem leading the elders to decide the dispute of circumcision and other dietary/morality issues.
It is interesting that Peter had nowhere near the education of Paul, yet it was Peter Jesus appointed. James also showed himself a smart cookie, however, Peter was the leader.
As we look to the Reformation period, we see different factions (denominations) declaring they were not only different from the Catholic Church, but also from other denominations.
Back to question, if Luther believed what he taught was true based upon the Bible and the Holy Spirit, and others such as Zwingli, Knox, etc., also believed they themselves were right, then who is right, and why?
We know the Holy Spirit doesn’t lie, so the difference in beliefs must come from interpretations of Scripture. If everybody has a right to their own personal interpretation, then their is no “truth.” Rather, it is Relativism.
BTW, the Pope is currently Francis, and Benedict XVI is Pope Emeritus. More accurately, Benedict XVI is the retired Bishop of Rome and thus no longer Pontiff.
How do you know the church is true? That's a matter of your own interpretation as well. You've decided that the church is right based on what?
It's the same dilemma whether you are trying to determine the truth using Scripture, or using the church.
The very weaknesses Catholics like to try to point out when people rely on Scripture, are the very same weaknesses that exist when people try to rely on the church.
Who interprets the church to you?
Who interprets the catechism to you?
Who interprets the magisterium to you?
Who interprets the priests homily to you?
Who interprets the interpretation of the interpreter to you.
And so it goes.
What's true is NOT the church. Nowhere in Scripture is the church ever called the truth or are we told to look to the church for the truth.
On the contrary, this is what the Holy Spirit in Scripture is the truth.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
So tell me, what's so hard about that to understand that I need someone to *interpret* it for me? That I can't understand that on my own?
When catholics on this board aren’t in 100% agreement how can we take this seriously?
You will notice a catholic posted this. Some call them bait posts.
Such is true with most (every?) institutions extant. It's a problem with recruiting queens (kings?) lieutenants and drones from the human race.
There probably isn't much wrong with the "Institution" provided adherents adhere to the rules.
Literate people living at the time of the Borgias and soon thereafter could make only one moral decision...join Martin Luther.
Since then the Lutherans through many Lutheran sects have followed more than one Yellow Brick Road to ruin. The same can be said for other Protestant persuasions.
They must recruit their puppets and puppeteers from that same flawed human pool. So many people, up to and including me, don't always adhere to the rules. We can only hope that Grand Puppeteer upstairs adheres to the rule his progeny insisted upon...forgive seventy times seven times.
The institution has requirements of people claiming to be members. There isn't anything immoral about the requirements. When any Pope insists upon following the requirements even when such is swimming against the current...especially when swimming against the current...it can be awesome and a source of pride.
Some Popes get a little confused. Not all of them.
“There probably isn’t much wrong with the “Institution” provided adherents adhere to the rules.”
Except for the firmly entrenched syncretic paganism and the loss of the Gospel of Grace.
“Since then the Lutherans through many Lutheran sects have followed more than one Yellow Brick Road to ruin. The same can be said for other Protestant persuasions.”
The sad, but wonderful thing is that every group that leaves the truth is cut off, like cancer from the fellowship of believing churches. What to a RC may look like a problem is exactly what Paul instructs us to do.
“We can only hope that Grand Puppeteer upstairs adheres to the rule his progeny insisted upon...forgive seventy times seven times.”
Oh, for believers - meaning those who’ve entrusted themselves entirely to Christ’s sacrifice for eternal life - all sins, past, present and future have been forgiven. His blood covers all.
Best.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.