INFALLIBILITY’S FATAL FLAW

White Horse Inn ^ | February 17, 2014 | Timothy F. Kauffman

[RnMomof7]

History ping

[Gamecock]

Sure seems to be a lot of chaos in that faith group.

[GeronL]

bump

[Last Dakotan]

Sure seems to be a lot of chaos in that faith group.

2000 years and a billion followers tends to do that.

[caww]

...”2000 years and a billion followers tends to do that”...

Same with Islam....and they aren’t listening either.

[caww]

...”2000 years and a billion followers tends to do that”...

Same with Islam....and they aren’t listening either.

[Gamecock]

You can say that again!

[chajin]

You can say that again!

He did...

[Talisker]

Infallibility means whatever the Catholic Church wants it to mean. If you are a Catholic, you accept that on faith and obedience. If you’re not a Catholic, it doesn’t apply to you.

[Gamecock]

I know.

[CynicalBear]

And still Catholics must submit their will and intellect to the magisterium! Not to Christ mind you, but to the magisterium of an organization that can’t agree with itself and surely doesn’t agree with scripture.

[chajin]

I know.

I figured you did :-)

[SkyPilot]

Hard to believe this really happened, but it did.

[Campion]

Chaos is what has happened to Protestantism in the last 150 years.

[Campion]

But there is one problem: nobody knows when the Pope is speaking infallibly, nobody knows how often a pope has spoken infallibly, and nobody knows what the criteria are for when a pope is speaking infallibly.

That's funny, because Vatican I taught (infallibly, BTW):

Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, for the glory of God Our Savior, the exaltation of the Catholic Religion, and the salvation of Christian people, the Sacred Council approving, We teach and define that it is a divinely-revealed dogma: that the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex Cathedra, that is, when in discharge of the office of Pastor and Teacher of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the Universal Church, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the divine Redeemer willed that His Church should be endowed for defining doctrine regarding faith or morals: and that therefore such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church.

Looks like some pretty clear qualifications to me. The Pope has to be (a) speaking in his supreme authority as "Pastor and Teacher of All Christians," (b) he has to be defining (that is, teaching definitively), (c) to the whole church, (d) a doctrine concerning faith or morals.

With regard to Ordinatio Sacerdotalis this "Brian Cones at US Catholic" Kauffman quotes is clearly clueless. (Isn't "US Catholic" some kind of liberal rag? I'm not familiar with it.)

Infallible documents don't have to contain the word "infallible," and Cardinal Ratzinger was not claiming that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was infallible because he said so, he was saying that it was not an exercise of the (technical term) "extraordinary Papal magisterium" because it was already infallibly known that women cannot be ordained before either he or JP2 came on the scene.

[Rashputin]

And yet all Protestant and Protestant derived doctrine makes the assertion that individual infallibility is a common as dirt and available to anyone who has said the magic words before reading Scripture for themselves.

What Protestantism asserts, Protestants deny exists. Go figure.