Interview With a Christian

The New York Times ^ | April 4, 2015 | Ross Douthat

[2ndDivisionVet]

AFTER watching the debate about religious freedom unfold over the past week, I decided to subject myself to an interview by an imaginary — but representative — member of the press. Here is our conversation:

Happy Easter!

Thank you.

O.K., enough pleasantries. You’re a semi-reasonable Christian. What do you think about the terrible Indiana “religious liberty” bill?

I favored the original version. Based on past experience, laws like this protect religious minorities from real burdens. As written, the Indiana law probably wouldn’t have protected vendors from being fined for declining to work at a same-sex wedding. But I would favor that protection as well.

Seriously? Shouldn’t businesses have to serve all comers?

I think they should be able to decline service for various reasons, religious scruples included. A liberal printer shouldn’t be forced to print tracts for a right-wing cause. A Jewish deli shouldn’t be required to cater events for the Nation of Islam.

But those are issues of belief, not identity. Denying service to gays is like denying service to blacks under Jim Crow.

None of the businesses facing sanctions are saying they wouldn’t serve gay people as a class; they just don’t want to work at nuptials. This isn’t a structural system of oppression, a society-wide conspiracy like Jim Crow; we’re talking about a handful of shops across the country. It seems possible, and reasonable, to live and let live.

I think discrimination is discrimination. What about you? Would you bake the cake?

Honestly, since so many of my friends aren’t religious or conservative, I’ve always taken for granted that being part of their lives meant accompanying them through life choices that belong to a different worldview than my own....

[2ndDivisionVet]

Comments?

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Especially in a faith whose “Happy Easter” can’t be separated from the cross."

Good for Ross Douthat. That's radical, right there.

[KC_Lion]

We are going to have to force people to do things they wouldn't normally want to do

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3275973/posts

East Germany isn't a Warning to Leftists.

It is a Goal and an Instruction Manuel >:(

[Steve_Seattle]

I might have tweaked one or two things, but overall I think it’s a pretty sound defense of the Christian position. Rather than talking about the Jewish baker/caterer, I would have used a more secular example, like a liberal ad firm declining to represent Wal-Mart or Hobby Lobby.

[editor-surveyor]

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>> “Denying service to gays is like denying service to blacks under Jim Crow.” <<

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Really?

Blacks are born black, queers have to be trained to become queer.

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[Fido969]

The New York Times actually found a Christian? Had they ever seen one before?

[Steve_Seattle]

"Denying service to gays is like denying service to blacks under Jim Crow.”

Libs haven't quite sorted that one out yet. On one hand, they say gender is a social construct, then they say that being gay - and only being gay - is hard-wired from the womb.

But - and Douthat is one of the very few (other than me) - to make the point that most of EVERYBODY'S traits are either genetically-influenced or formed very early in childhood, but that does not excuse us from struggling with any of those traits that might be harmful.

I might have a "tendency" towards pederasty or alcoholism or anger or sexual licentiousness, but that doesn't mean I can excuse myself and act out on these impulses. It also means we should have SOME compassion when people have moral failures. But the gay movement has gone WAY beyond asking forgiveness for weakness, or just asking to be left alone, but is now IMPOSING itself on everyone and demanding acceptance of and complicity in the homosexual lifestyle. .

[editor-surveyor]

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>> “That's radical, right there.” <<

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Yes, it surely is!

Easter has absolutely nothing to do with the cross; its worship of the sex goddess, after whom it is named, impressed upon poorly educated christians.

Yeshua rose at sunset, as the Sabbath began to close, on what Romans called “Saturday” evening, even back then.

In addition, the resurrection was kept secret from all specifically to refute the coming pagan surge of   “Easter.” In the Lord's Supper, We celebrate his death, that provided for our salvation, as the apostles affirm, not his resurrection, unless we are pagans.

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[jwalsh07]

The argument against compelled labor is a secular one as well as the religious component. There is no analog too Jim Crow. There are plenty of secular bakers, florists and photographers who will happily take a homosexuals money to partake in their wedding ceremony. Live and let live is not the goal, the goal is compliance against your will. Freedom is an old fashioned notion.

[Steve_Seattle]

"laws like this protect religious minorities from real burdens"

That's another thing I would tweak. The law actually has kind of a "guilty until proven innocent" quality, i.e., the business owner must go to court (at considerable expense) and convince a potentially unsympathetic judge that his/her decisions stem from "real" religious conviction, not "ordinary" bigotry.

So the law is very burdensome, and makes an unnecessary distinction between religious conscience and the conscience of non-religious people, who I think should enjoy the same protection.

[ReformationFan]

Exactly. Sexual behavior without a choice is defined as rape and I thought that was supposed to be illegal?

[Steve_Seattle]

"Easter has absolutely nothing to do with the cross; its worship of the sex goddess, after whom it is named, impressed upon poorly educated christians."

No Christian offers prayer or worship to the "sex goddess," nor do the vast majority of secular people. Perhaps a handful of Wiccans do, but that's about it.

The Easter bunny and Easter candy - whatever their origins - are now just ways for businesses to sell candy and Easter baskets. No one takes the Easter bunny seriously as a figure of worship, much less as a "sex goddess."

[editor-surveyor]

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>> “The Easter bunny and Easter candy - whatever their origins - are now just ways for businesses to sell candy and Easter baskets.” <<

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As has always been the case with pagan worship. Paganism has always enriched its promotors, which is why Constantine invoked it. The nonsense that is now called “stations of the cross” was a commercial endeavor owned by Constantine’s mother.

Mammon is the heart of humanism.
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[Morpheus2009]

The real problem is distinguishing predisposition or urge from an actual behavior.

Sure, attraction to the same gender is likely not a choice for most who experience it. However, going all the way from one’s home to a park during the wee hours for an anonymous experience is a choice that requires effort. Allowing someone to engage in sexual behavior is a choice, unless the person rapes you. Sexual behavior is a choice, putting yourself in a tempting situation to commit said behavior also is.

You also don’t have any “closet” for your skin color, skin color is also not based at all on behavior or whom you are attracted to.

[Morpheus2009]

If anything, I poke fun of the polytheists during Halloween, it’s called parodying them, impolite, sure, but why do you think Constantine made Christmas the same day that Diocletian declared the plague of Christianity eradicated from the Earth? There’s essentially some spite and mockery there. If it’s wrong, then I guess mocking the polytheists of old is a guilty pleasure of mine.

[ViLaLuz]

Years ago I worked for a graphics shop that refused to take a print job promoting a gang. I suppose today we would have been sued for being racist.

[ReformationFan]

Your post makes too much logical sense for contemporary leftists to understand.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Happy Easter to you, too!

[Mom MD]

Without the resurrection His death was meaningless