Posted on 03/08/2015 7:22:35 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Because racism.
My question to all is “How may one determine if a murderer will continue to be an ‘unjust aggressor’ after they are legitimately convicted?”
This is absolutely correct. The Church used to be very Old Testament!
Hence my follow up post #8.
The death penalty is unwisely used, if at all.
Trials should be swift when circumstantial evidence is not the main arrow in prosecution’s quiver.
Sentence should be carried out at a date certain with enough time for a review.
Each state should decide what form of execution will be used. Those states that have no death penalty will no doubt suffer the most murders.
The death penalty for heinous crimes of murder, child molestation, rape and the selling of narcotics.
And, most importantly, the prisons should force inmates to work 8-10 hours per day at hard labor. The cells must have no television or other electronic goodies.
Prisoners should be allowed to watch one channel for 90 minutes each evening before bedtime, but that channel must be PBS.
The library should consist only of donated paperback books.
Any sexual activity between inmates either consensual or forced must be punished serverly.
Bleeding heart cafeteria Catholics.
One year when my son was on the debate team in high school, the subject was on the question of capital punishment. The debaters need to be prepared to argue either way, pro or con. Parents are asked to help judge the debates, and are instructed to judged based on how well the kids argued their respective positions, regardless of their personal feelings.
As a judge, I heard many strong arguments both for and against the death penalty that really got me to thinking about it.
What is the will of the Father?
If a person is executed before repenting for his crime, are we taking away the possibility that he could repent at some later point in his life if he wasn’t put to death? By applying the death penalty, are we interfering with God’s plan for that person?
If a person has repented and turned his life over to Christ before being executed, he will go to heaven, but would it have been possible that he could have brought others to Christ if he wasn’t put to death? Are we interfering with God’s plan for those who could have been brought to Jesus?
Got a pretty weak God there. Matt 10: 28-30
You mean even popes:
In a message to participants of the Fifth World Congress Against the Death Penalty held in Madrid, Pope Francis reiterated the Holy See’s support for “the abolition of the death penalty.”
In his message, which was signed by Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Holy Father recalled that his predecessors Benedict XVI and John Paul II made similar pleas.
He asked that “capital sentences be commuted to a lesser punishment that allows for time and incentives for the reform of the offender.” - http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/papal-message-reaffirms-call-to-abolish-death-penalty/#ixzz3Tp6eAZ5O
The new evangelization calls for followers of Christ who are unconditionally pro-life: who will proclaim, celebrate and serve the Gospel of life in every situation. A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. . . . I renew the appeal I made . . . for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary. —Pope John Paul II Papal Mass, St. Louis, Missouri, January 27, 1999
Twenty-five years ago, our Conference of bishops first called for an end to the death penalty. We renew this call to seize a new moment and new momentum. This is a time to teach clearly, encourage reflection, and call for common action in the Catholic community to bring about an end to the use of the death penalty in our land. —USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/death-penalty-capital-punishment/catholic-campaign-to-end-the-use-of-the-death-penalty.cfm
RCs are told that
"It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock...the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors." (VEHEMENTER NOS, an Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906),
Which RCs present to us as the necessary alternative of ascertaining the veracity of what leadership says by examination of the evidence. But the problem with that is that leadership can err as well as interpret past teachings in a way that is actually a change, but Scripture does neither, while in reality Caths interpret both.
Yet RC opposition to CP is incongruous, seeing as they sanctioned and even basically required it (wrongly) for those it deemed as heretics in the past .
Yes, including popes. In effect, by requesting the end of the death penalty, they are stating that Catholic teaching which has always supported the right of the state to use capital punishment, is wrong.
"That precept" is found all over the New Testament including 1 John 2:2.
Of course jails need to exist, but not for purposes of punishment.
The valid purposes of the penal code and imprisonment are Restraint (incarceration) for the protection of society, Restitution where applicable, Deterrence, and Rehabilitation.
Because the issue is no longer sin. All sinful acts of the whole world were punished 2000 years ago.
The issue now is JESUS CHRIST.
He that believes on him [NOT he that doesn't sin] is not condemned: but he that believes not [NOT he that sins] is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18.
Why? I’ll take the Bible over Luther’s Reform theology any day and twice on Sunday.
And above all, by so doing they are stating that the Bible has always supported the right of the state to use capital punishment, is wrong.
I would add however, that to be Biblical conviction must be one the weight of one or two eyewitnesses, with those who lied incurring the penalty which their false testimony incurred.
And by my count there were up to 40 capital crimes in the OT.
Also, in Scripture under the Law then punishment was by community action, normally that of stoning, versus letting another to the dirty work.
I think this fostered a more fitting and deeper sober sense responsibility. For the sin was not only against one but to varying degrees it was against the community.
And knowing that the community would actually do the killing would have a greater deterrent against false testimony, as a liar would fear the wrath of the people he involved in his crime if he was found out.
Also, taking part in stoning one to death would also impress upon the people the gravity of the crime, and give them a sense of justice, more so that the state taking the guilty away for private execution.
And which in turn places greater appreciation on mercy, seen in contrary to justice.
Today the gravity of person sins is lessened (versus killing polar bears, etc.) and so it the punishment, but thank God for His mercy in Christ.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (Romans 3:24-26)
In this case, you are doing neither, twice today by your own reckoning. While those acts have been judged and condemned, there are earthly consequences. Christ's sacrifice paid the eternal price for those sins for those who believe, not the temporal price. Be against the death penalty if you wish, but don't preach that the Bible supports you, because it doesn't.
He either suffered God's wrath and punishment and died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2) or he didn't. Either the capital criminal's sins and wrongdoings, your sins and wrongdoings, and my sins and wrongdoings were already judged and condemned on the cross of Christ or they weren't. The gospel makes no distinction between "eternal price" and "temporal price." That's mans' invention. Punishing a man twice for the same act is unjust double jeopardy.
Their are other reasons besides punishment for a penal code and prisons including Restraint (incarceration) for the protection of society, Restitution where applicable, Deterrence, and Rehabilitation.
As a punishment, the death penalty is unjust because whatever heinous acts the person did, those acts were already judged and condemned 2000 years ago, so the death penalty is unjust double jeopardy.
That is absurd, as for one, what Christ provided for all does not mean it is unconditionally effectual for all, but that all must receive it for escape eternal punishment.
In the parable of the feast (Mt. 22:1-14) the feast ws prepared for all, but only those who showed up, and had on a wedding garment, could benefit from it. And the rest were punished.
And which is due to their sins, as having rejected Christ, even by rejecting the light one had, then one is culpable for all of his sins.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Revelation 20:12)
Moreover, God is indeed displeased by our sins done as His children, as while Christ took responsibility for ours sins and paid the price for our forgiveness, He calls us to accountability as children, and chastens us to be in the faith, and to be holy.
And can even execute people due to their sins.
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:30-32)
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. (Revelation 2:4-5)
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. (Revelation 2:22-23)
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. (Acts 5:9-10)
And at the judgment seat of Christ a believer can suffer the displeasure of the Lord due to the corrupt quality of some of his workmanship used in building the church, directly i\or indirectly i suppose.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. (2 Corinthians 5:10-11)
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)
But which does not occur until the Lord returns.
In addition, God has ordained man to execute justice in this domain, and in which the state is given a sword, not a butter knife, to deal with moral sins, while the church is only to rely upon disfellowship or spiritual power to discipline its own. In which the state should not enter if btwn members.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. (Romans 13:3-5)
Ironically, on Purim. Which most of them have probably never even heard of.
While the sins were covered at the cross, only those who believe in Christ get that advantage. The temporal price for crimes is whatever Caesar says it is.
You make man his own savior, but the Bible says Salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9).
If Christ paid the price for all of the sin of all men, then that would mean He also paid for the sin of unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). And if all sin of all men was paid for, what are those bound for Hell punished for?
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