Posted on 01/02/2015 2:07:21 PM PST by NYer
Probably so, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. But, you are a flaming lunatic. Do you always lose control like this, or are you just off your meds? Goodbye forever.
I apologize if I have misjudged you, but I have a very low tolerance for idiots.
***Jesus is mentioned in Josephus, but that section was at least altered later by others,***
How did they alter it? Did they erase the ink and write something else?
Did they write between the lines?
Did they splice the scroll to add a piece and move all the letters down?
They did not have “word wrap” so knowing how they managed to get a new paragraph in the text is something everyone would like to know.
Another thing is Origen wrote that Jesus was mentioned in the Roman historical writings. Since the libraries at that time were under Pagan Roman administrators how did some Christian manage to get in and make a changes in the text?
What about the other libraries? Alexandria was not the only one. Were those also changed?
The only way it could have been done was when some monk was transcribing a new text many years later, after Origen had died and the libraries were under Christian control. If so, why did not the overseeing monk catch the error?
Here is a good summary at Josephus.org:
New Testament Parallels to the works of Josephus
Note that it is written by G. J. Goldberg which is probably a Jewish name.
The first time I heard of it years ago, I was inclined to believe anything about Jesus would have been added. Now I lean to that Josephus did write about Jesus. It was interesting that according to Josephus, James was stoned and not thrown from the pinnacle of the temple. I can handle a few contradictions. I think anyway.
Incidentally, I tended to minimize the tearing down of the temple. The temple would have been truly magnificent with heavy gold plating on three sides and when the sun flashed on it, it would be blinding. Also there were over a million souls killed in the uprising to try to prevent sacking Jerusalem and tearing down the temple.
I read quite a lengthy account in Josephus about the war and tearing down the temple. There was so much burning. I think stones. They needed timbers for supports, and the Romans had to go ten miles in any direction for more timber to build the battering rams. It was all a lot more than I had ever imagined and I would venture to say that if the temple still existed, it might be considered the biggest wonder of the world (built by men anyway).
The document I stumbled upon was maybe a year ago... I don't really know why it didn't create a bigger splash - Perhaps it is in contention...
There is no doubt in my mind that accepted MSS of Josephus contain Christian interpolations. The problem with your position is that all of the early preservation of Josephus was undertaken by Christians (so the interpolations in the Christians' favor remain suspect). In fact, it is with nearly unanimous agreement among textual scholars that it is not pure. There is some evidence to that fact in an ancient Arabic copy, found in the early 70's which varies from the accepted Greek.
The white paper I read was by a Jewish guy, who proposed an exception to the text which did not deny the historicity of Messiah as included in the text, but cleaned up the Christian additions (which are extent in all the Greek copies)... He brought a new MS (found as of late... say, 80's and fwd) to bear the weight of his position, but for the life of me, I cannot remember.
One of my major problems with the Net is that I run into these little gems, and commit them haphazardly to memory, because one can always go find them again, right? :P
FYI, good article
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/did-jesus-exist/
Heh, no kidding. I laugh inside every time it even enters my head!
Correct. The only common attribute of the Republicans in the late 1850's when the party was formed was the opposition to the expansion of slavery into the Western territories.
There were abolitionists involved, but they were a small minority. There were old time 'internal improvement' Whigs involved, but they were also a minority. There were protective tariff interests involved, but they were also a minority. The only common theme was opposition to slavery expansion.
Whig politicians, North and South, tended to favor both internal improvements and protective tariffs, but were wildly split on the issue of the expansion of slavery.
That fundamental division inside the Whig party is what killed it. The pro-slavery/expansionist Whigs became Democrats while the anti-expansionist Whigs became Republicans.
I don't know if it is immigration policy or Federal spending --- but I'm sensing divisions in the Republican party today that could echo the Whig divisions of the mid 19th century.
“During Napoleon’s Egyptian campaign he seriously considered adopting the Muslim faith...”
A violent, misoginist megolmaniac considered adopting Islam? Perish the thought.
The method of alteration isn’t known, since whoever did it obviously didn’t leave a record. However, we know that the copies we have of Josephus, like most texts from that era, aren’t the originals, but copies of copies, transcribed and edited by various people over the years. So to say the text was altered doesn’t imply any of the technical types of forgery that you are asking about, it simply means an editor or editors changed the text while they were preparing a new version, and only that version, or subsequent ones based on it have been passed down to us.
I am not commenting on the other historical records. I don’t doubt the existence of Jesus, but this is a case where nearly all the scholars agree there was an alteration, because it is just that blatant.
It poses a good question for Catholics. I suppose even in this the brother James could be taken as a Christian brother and not by birth.
The bottom line is there seem to be honest scholars in many camps and we might expect more casting doubts on Christ's divinity or existence. There are evil influences that would like to end Christianity once and for all. The fact that some wrote so deprecatingly of Jesus because that was their view is more convincing than if they had written more flatteringly (one might have more reason to conclude it had been altered.
I guess I don't need extraneous material to believe nor do I accept every detail in the bible as 100% accurate. It's frustrating. Like the Pilate stone. Sometimes God seems to give us a sign from ancient times like the bible opened to a certain page found in a peat bog which text seemed to fit what was happening at the time. And the Pilate stone was fortunate that it was not totally obliterated.
Anyway it was about Napoleon and I don't have a good opinion about him. I saw his burial vault in Paris, not that I ever was very interested in him. But the article shed light on the times in France and with the papacy so it was interesting.
roamer_1: you expect to see things remain on the web but much falls into rabbit holes and the NSA isn't going to be of help in retrieving it ;-). I just read a blurb about how Herod died in agony, maybe it was here on FR. They found a palace and underground passage in israel and his mother died there so they concluded he would be there because he wanted to be buried there.
Actually he did! But his soldiers were revolted at the thought of having to be circumcised!
And here I thought an externally cold winter brought Napoleon to his knees. So much for history books.
No one ever loses "control" "like this" on the religion forum of FreeRepublic.
...that is frowned upon in this estabLiSHMENT. (e-trade babies know what i'm talkin' about).
A little mood music;
Romans 1: 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
Suggestion, give God credit for everything good for no man is good.
Luke 18:19 and Mark 10:18 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
18 Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.
De Colores
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