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The truth of the Nativity
Gty.org ^ | 11/5/09 | John MacArthur

Posted on 12/24/2014 7:08:14 PM PST by Faith Presses On

The story of the first Christmas is so beloved that singers and storytellers across the centuries have embellished and elaborated and mythologized the story in celebration. However, most people now don't know which details are biblical and which are fabricated. People usually imagine the manger scene with snow, singing angels, many worshipers, and a little drummer boy. None of that is found in the biblical account.

Christmas has become the product of an odd mixture of pagan ideas, superstition, fanciful legends, and plain ignorance. Add to that the commercialization of Christmas by marketers and the politicization of Christmas in the culture wars, and you're left with one big mess. Let's try to sort it out. The place to begin is in God's Word, the Bible. Here we find not only the source of the original account of Christmas, but also God's commentary on it.

We can't know Jesus if we don't understand He is real. The story of His birth is no allegory. We dare not romanticize it or settle for a fanciful legend that renders the whole story meaningless. Mary and Joseph were real people. Their dilemma on finding no room at the inn surely was as frightening for them as it would be for you or me. The manger in which Mary laid Jesus must have reeked of animal smells. So did the shepherds, in all probability. That first Christmas was anything but picturesque.

But that makes it all the more wondrous. That baby in the manger is God! Immanuel!

(Excerpt) Read more at gty.org ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: nativity
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On the "singing angels" part, I wonder if that is really inaccurate. They did appear to the shepherds and in their praising God I think they might have sang.
1 posted on 12/24/2014 7:08:14 PM PST by Faith Presses On
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To: Faith Presses On

I wonder about that too, because the Bible doesn’t say they sang, it says “and saying”. There is more McArthur doesn’t mention. Mary rode a donkey? No, she likely walked. And at most, she was 15 years old. But I am not sure McArthur has it right that there were no other women present. Joseph had family in Bethlehem. Just because they were temporarily in a stable doesn’t mean he didn’t seek out his kin when she went into labor.


2 posted on 12/24/2014 7:27:56 PM PST by Wiser now (Socialism does not eliminate poverty, it guarantees it.)
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To: Faith Presses On
And suddenly there was with the angel
a multitude of the heavenly host praising
God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace, good will toward men.

3 posted on 12/24/2014 8:05:48 PM PST by Rodamala
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To: Faith Presses On

With atheists vandalizing Nativity Displays, and satanists erecting their own, with mosques replacing churches, and Military Chaplains being fired for praying in the name of Jesus, and with Christian girls in Iraq being sold into sex slavery and their parents beheaded, I wish MacArthur would adjust his focus a little, rather than exacerbating divisions within the Body of Christ by railing about The Little drummer Boy or whether the Angels sang, or whether the stable smelled bad, or the shepherds had BO.

I mean really. Can’t we enjoy our Beloved Celebration of our Savior’s birth without being subjected to his incessant scolding?

BTW, I attend an Bible-Believing, Evangelical, Non-denom in the Reformed tradition. So I do not have a doctrinal axe to grind with GTY. I recognize that exhortation is an important part of ministry, but Christmas is already under attack. We don’t need this, at this point in time, from one of “Our own”!

Merry Christmas, John.


4 posted on 12/24/2014 9:53:12 PM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Faith Presses On

On the “singing angels” part, I wonder if that is really inaccurate.


The son of God being born was the great miracle, anything along with it would be a small thing, so anything would be possible.


5 posted on 12/25/2014 3:20:49 AM PST by ravenwolf (t know.)
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To: left that other site

I wonder myself also why Christians still fight each other, and in a special way, on this website while our faith is under attack and believers are suffering around the world.

Hit it right on the nail.

A good and blessed Merry Christmas!


6 posted on 12/25/2014 4:40:48 AM PST by Biggirl (2014 MIdterms Were BOTH A Giant Wave And Restraining Order)
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To: left that other site

We don’t need this, at this point in time, from one of “Our own”!


I believe God allows us to celebrate the birth of his son the way we want but the world leaves Jesus out of Christmas.

I celebrated Christmas for thirty some years before I became fully aware of what it was about even though I was celebrating along side of Christians.

Rev 12:15
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

After I became a believer the lights, bells, snow and sleighs and even the singing never meant so much to me.

So I can also see Johns point. there is some one out there believer or not who goes through the rituals but don`t know what it is really about.


7 posted on 12/25/2014 4:43:52 AM PST by ravenwolf (t know.)
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To: ravenwolf

There is no question that the world would like nothing better than to take Christ out of Christmas. And there is no question that there are those who go through the rituals without understanding “The Reason for the Season”.

The second, third and fourth verses of many traditional Christmas Carols (even if they are sung by Bing Crosby! LOL!)often lay out the uncompromising Gospel and the need for Salvation, bought for us by The Blood of Jesus. As a professional musician, who has often been hired to play at “secular” Christmas parties, I always slip in more than one verse...things like “Jesus Our Emmanuel”, or “Born to raise the sons of earth, born to give us second birth” etc (From “Hark the Herald Angels SING...ooops...maybe they didn’t really sing...oh my...). Even the Little Drummer Boy calls Baby Jesus the “King”, and the song “We Three Kings of Orient Are” uses the three gifts of Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh to proclaim Jesus King, God, And Sacrifice, in that order.

The candy canes we give out are red and white, symbolizing the Blood of Jesus, and His spotless purity...also shaped like the letter “J” to remind us.

Even though the serpent is trying to flood us out, we can use the trappings and even the silliness of Christmas traditions to SHARE THE GOSPEL, which means “Good News” and is What Christmas is all about!

Glory to God in the Highest!

And a Blessed Merry Christmas to you, FRiend! :-)


8 posted on 12/25/2014 5:20:26 AM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Biggirl

Indeed.

Thank you, Biggirl.

Merry Christmas to you.

(I know of which you speak. I was attacked on another thread because I said that ‘Bethlehem of Judea” was part of Israel! LOL)

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0ZS9o6NLnM

I pray daily for the suffering martyrs stuck in The muslim world, and I am willing to bet there is not one of them who hold to the EXACT doctrine or liturgy that I practice.

Should I scold them for that?


9 posted on 12/25/2014 5:33:05 AM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: left that other site

That is true, Santa and the reindeer are the only thing many kids know and after they learn that it is just a fairy tale they are apt to believe the true story is also a fairy tale.

After i became a believer at about the age of thirty five
i found that i resented the birth of Jesus even being called Christmas.

Would you believe i have been a believer for over 40 years and never had any idea the red and white cane had anything to do with Jesus?


10 posted on 12/25/2014 6:33:13 AM PST by ravenwolf (t know.)
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To: ravenwolf

Back in the day, girls were required to have a dowry supplied by their father in order to even be considered for a decent marriage.

And an unmarried woman had few choices. She could either become a nun, a “spinster” languishing in her father’s house, or a prostitute.

In the dark ages, people often left their filthy shoes at their doorstep before going indoors.

In a particular town, some poor girls would awaken Christmas morning to find that somebody had visited their doorstep during the night, leaving a coin in their shoe, thus making them “marriageable”.

It was suspected that the secret visitor was their own local Bishop Nicholas, who was later canonized by his church after some miracles were attributed to him.

It is from this apocryphal story that we have the custom of hanging out our stockings, and the legendary Bishop Saint Nicholas is now known as Santa Claus.

So, even the foolish Santa trappings have their origin in something kind, charitable, and Christian.

It is up to us, as Believers, to use the trappings of our culture, as Paul did at Mars Hill, to lead people to the Truth.

My Mom told me the legend of St. Nicholas when I was a child and first started to doubt the existence of Santa. Even though I figured out that Santa was really mom and Dad, the delightful story of the kind Bishop made it all make sense in a sweet way.


11 posted on 12/25/2014 7:07:31 AM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: left that other site

So, even the foolish Santa trappings have their origin in something kind, charitable, and Christian.


That is true, there are some good and not so good comes from it.

In this country many kids raised in a home with money enough to go around actually believed that santa brought the presents.

But in the same generation kids raised in a tar paper shack or dirt floor will wonder why he brings those others presents but don`t bring me nothing.

So they learn early that it is only a myth and that being the case the religion that it comes from is also believed a myth.


12 posted on 12/25/2014 9:19:23 AM PST by ravenwolf (t know.)
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To: ravenwolf

I certainly understand your point, and that’s one of the reasons we Bikers and Marines Do a HUGE Toys For Tots campaign every year, and why Prison Fellowship has “Angel Tree” for kids whose parents are incarcerated.

It is when it is totally commercialized and the charitable message is lost, that it becomes a problem.

Incidentally, I have not gotten any new decorations for many years, because they are all made in China now. I still have an old wreathe that a student made for me many years ago, with musical instruments on it.

The crux of the matter is this...we, as Believers, can not expect the World to have the same Scriptural Celebrations of Christmas as we do. However, when there is a Nativity Scene on a lawn, with blinking lights saying: “GLORIA IN EXCELSIS DEO”, or those pesky 2nd and 3rd verses of “Joy To The World” proclaiming the Gospel, then something’s gotta give! The Word of God does not return to Him void, and when a kid sees Baby Jesus in a Manger a few steps from Frosty the Snowman, he’s bound to ask questions.

Our job is to be there with an answer, not huddle behind the doors of our churches saying “Bah Humbug!” when we see Christmas Traditions paraded in the public square.

Again with the Mars Hill analogy. Instead of marching around town smashing pagan altars with an axe, Paul reasoned with the philosophers about the God They Did Not Know...yet. So were we all once, until someone shared with us the Truth.

I am SO grateful somebody did that for me.

Have a Blessed Christmas, FRiend.


13 posted on 12/25/2014 9:35:22 AM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: left that other site

I am SO grateful somebody did that for me.


Me too, also I am thankful for my tobacco chewing friend
who pointed out what Christmas really was about.

Have a Blessed Christmas, FRiend


You have a nice Christmas also.


14 posted on 12/25/2014 10:19:45 AM PST by ravenwolf (t know.)
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To: ravenwolf

God Bless Your Tobacco-Chewing Friend!

There are some church folks that would call his particular “custom” nasty, or perhaps even sinful.

Yet you have placed a star in his crown!

The one who shared Christ with me was a tough old Biker. He did more than chew! LOL!


15 posted on 12/25/2014 10:39:12 AM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: left that other site

The one who shared Christ with me was a tough old Biker. He did more than chew! LOL!


Real people.


16 posted on 12/25/2014 1:06:25 PM PST by ravenwolf (t know.)
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To: ravenwolf

Indeed!

This is the Ministry in which I am involved. I am the Music Director(and Bass Player) on the left.

https://www.facebook.com/saintsmotorcycleministry


17 posted on 12/25/2014 1:54:44 PM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: left that other site

From what I see, what MacArthur is saying is right in line with Scripture.

He is saying Christians should be grounded in what the truth of Christmas is, and is reminding us that there have been a lot of false beliefs that have grown up around. Those beliefs can and no doubt have contributed to people missing the truth about who Jesus is.

Now on MacArthur “criticizing the church.” Well, according to Scripture, are words of correction and warning justified? If they are, then they are perfectly in line with Scripture, which commands believers to, among other things, warn and correct each other. As a Christian, I’m aware that the New Testament is quite full of warnings of the most serious sort to believers. It’s gotten to the point, though, that pastors, when they do mention these passages during sermons, have to defend doing so, saying things like that they aren’t his words, but he’s just telling the congregation what God’s Word says, or make a joke about needing to put on a flame suit. But it’s no joking matter, because by and large, the church in this time and place has gotten to the point of not only loving God’s ways, but being offended by them.


18 posted on 12/25/2014 3:48:11 PM PST by Faith Presses On
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To: Faith Presses On

Of course, exhortation is a very important part of ministry. Of Course, Christians should be grounded in truth.

And of course, JM is an excellent Bible Teacher. In fact, his teaching on the Lord’s Prayer and Psalm 23 are both wonderful and were very much a part of my early discovery of God’s Word.

However, there is a war on Christianity and upon Christmas in our society today. Every day it is something else. Here on FR we are constantly hearing about the destruction of Christian symbols, the prohibition of prayers in the public square, and the destruction of our way of life by the left.

Do you really want to see all the “extra-biblical” reminders of Jesus removed from our culture? It is never mentioned in Scripture that we should “say grace’ over our meals...so should that be eliminated? It is probably not scriptural to mark a grave with a Cross, so should we pull them all up? Should public manger scenes and Christmas carols be outlawed, not because they offend atheists, but because they are not in the Bible?

I agree that these things are not in the Bible, but look at the opportunity they give us to tell people about Jesus. If I sang “Joy to the World’ in July, people would think I was nuts, but if I sing it in December, it gives me an opportunity to declare the Gospel. Jesus was probably not even born in December, but why throw away the chance to lift up his name?

There will always be those who are distracted by the commercialism, but if that is the case, talk to those Christians individually and steer them in the right direction. If they reject you, shake the dust off your feet and go, preach the gospel, and take whatever opportunity the culture offers you.

John often cites other sources in his teachings, such as the Ancient historians, 1st century Customs, Shepherding techniques, etc. ‘Sola Scriptura” means that Scripture hold our PRIMARY position as the foremost authority. However, in Bible exposition, we also read about History, geography, the culture of the Times, and so on. MacArthur is a master at this. He does not present Scripture in a vacuum.

I do not approve of pagan practices creeping into the church either, and would cringe to see, for example, a Christmas tree on the altar, or something creepy like that. I really dislike the blatant commercialization and marketing of Christmas “Stuff” as well.

If I am given a choice between joining in the ever expanding War against Christianity in America, or displaying a Manger Scene with a little unscriptural snow on the roof, or some angels unscripturally singing praises to God, or three unscriptural kings representing the three colors of humanity, or a little unscriptural drummer boy playing his heart out in praise to the baby Jesus, guess which one I’m going to go for? If all JM was concerned about were the commercialization and selfishness, I would agree with him completely, but he specifically mentioned things like snow, Christmas carols, and Angels SINGING.

Please forgive me if I sound contentious, because I don’t mean to be, but I am really concerned about our Brothers and Sisters being barricaded into their church on Christmas Eve and burned to death by muslims, or our brethren being beheaded or crucified for their faith, which might contain some customs that don’t match up with John MacArthur’s concept of what Christianity should include. Perhaps I am a little militant about my faith, but we are in a War, so militant is a good way to be.

I wish you a Merry Christmas...which is unscriptural but I will do it anyway.

Peace.


19 posted on 12/25/2014 5:51:22 PM PST by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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