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To: BlueDragon
yet it was His first miracle that we know of (from actual apostolic source, that is

Yes, after a fashion. John assures us there were many other things that Jesus did, which if every one were written the world could not contain the books that would be written.

until the hour of glorification? Begs the question -- when was that?

Yes, He declared the hour had come when he would be glorified, signifying His death. He was sanctifying the name, as it were, and more, at his last Pesach/Passover. John records it.

would that not result in Him having led her along in

No. She suffered as a sword or javelin passed through her own soul, as it were. We know that she was at the cross and witnessed him die. Afterward we know she was in unity with all the Apostles and brethren in Jerusalem.

can't you see that the wine at the wedding, that super-abundance which He supplied Jehovah Jireh --- was symbolic too of His blood shed for payment and remission of sin?

No, I don't see Cana as representative of his crucifixion ala Isaiah and Psalms. I don't mind you seeing it that way. Cana was a Jewish wedding. Where and when is the next Jewish wedding going to be ? He did teach about it.

A prophet I love is Micah. The LORD sent not only Moses, but also Aaron and Miriam. Does He require of us blood sacrifices, or to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God ? Notwithstanding, Messiah had to die for sins not His own and rise from the dead.

    In No Particular Order
  1. Shecharchoret by Ofra Haza
  2. Somewhere Over the Rainbow by Israel "IZ" Kamakawiwo'ole
  3. Entre Dos Aquas by Paco de Lucia

2,597 posted on 12/24/2014 1:38:22 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
I don't think you are understanding me here much at all.

When you say things like "No. She suffered as a sword or javelin passed through her own soul, as it were." in reply to me -- what is the worth of that, when I just WENT OVER THAT, addressing that?

Can you hear yourself talk, or must you continue to provide reply towards whatever it is I may say, as long as it's being postured as rebuttal but which is no rebuttal at all?

I did not quite put it like that, but was indeed comparing the wine itself with the blood.

Christ himself does no less in other contexts.

That is the key for why when He responded to her (Mary) having said "there is no wine" (the Gospel writer John having just prior to this mentioned that "the wine had failed" roughly meaning -- the supply was exhausted) Jesus saying "Woman, what [is that] to you and me?" saying then also "My hour has not come".

Why, oh why would He have said "My hour has not yet come", which 'hour' you have insisted is the hour of his death, --- then straightaway turned water (which has and carries it's own symbolism) into wine, and that not be included (but not solely inclusive of) representing his own life giving power, even as also the blood payment which He in "his hour" gave, as sign towards the "fall and rising of many in Israel"? (Luke 2:34)

He told the people in John 6 that He was the bread which came from Heaven, even right after having spoken of the manna which had sustained the Israelites in the Wilderness (of Sinai, or Sin) and now Himself somewhat by explanation & demonstration (in John 6) showed Himself also having been all along, the Passover, and now the blood of the new covenant Jeremiah 31:31;

[full chapter Jeremiah 31:31

What did he pour out during His "hour"?

The Life is in the blood.

At Jewish weddings (which could go on for the better part of a week) plentiful abundance of wine held significance as representative of God's blessings, and even "life" itself. The wedding toast pronounced over the wine, L'Chaim == To Life.

Roughly a millennium later the Persian poet Omar Khayyam utilizes and toys with the thematic symbolism of wine & life representing one another, although I am not suggesting that writer borrowed alone from Judaic & Christian influences, even there the mark is shown, as it is also evident there was a variety of religious thought & philosophy expressed in form of distillation from his own mind, but I digress...and the Rubaiyat is not exactly scripture...

Red, Red, Wine UB40

2,598 posted on 12/24/2014 3:47:13 PM PST by BlueDragon (I could see sound,love,and the soundsetme Free,but youwerenot listening,so could not see)
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