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To: wmfights

The error of a pretribulational rapture stem only partially from a dispensational error and mostly from the assumption that Daniel’s seventieth week, the Great Tribulation, and the Day of the Lord (or day of wrath as the author points out) are all one and the same.

Dispensationalism is perhaps the strongest argument for a pretribulational rapture, however, it is misapplied here. God has indeed operated through various dispensations, and they are essential to proper biblical interpretation; but let me ask one thing: Does the existence of the Church preclude God’s fulfilling of His promises to Israel? No, the Church is not Israel, nor has it replaced Israel. Yet God is not bound to ignore His covenants with Abraham or Moses while He fulfills His New Testament (Covenant) by which all His elect are saved. While God is extending His superabounding grace through the Gospel, He is also preserving His earthly people, Israel, and bringing them back into the land promised to the patriarchs.

Further, we cannot separate the deep roots of the Church in Israel. All of the apostles were Jews. Almost all of the Bible was written by Jews. The second temple was not destroyed until 70 A.D., many years after the Church came into existence. And Israel, as promised by God, has never ceased to exist, even though we are in this present age of grace.

Now, to the larger error. Believers in the New Testament are warned of the coming anti-Christ as well as the anti-Christ spirit that was already operating.

The author mentions Revelation 3:10 which says, “Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” He argues that the meaning of keep here requires the removal of the church. I beg to differ. The same word is used in the Lord’s prayer for us:

John 17:15
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

It is clear that we can be kept from the evil one, kept from evil, and even kept from tribulation WITHOUT being taken out of the world.

The author attempts to explain Matthew 24 in a purely Jewish context, however, these are things he taught privately to Christ’s disciples. These are the apostles, the foundation of the church. More importantly, consider the larger context.

This passage and similar ones in Mark and Luke provide a series of events unique in human history which indicate the return of Christ is imminent.

Mark 13:29
So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors!

Notice that this same exact and unique sequence of events is presented in a different light (from the perspective of Heaven) in Revelation 6 where the Lamb (Christ) opens the first six seals of the scroll.

The author also quotes Revelation 6:17 where the “Day of Wrath” has come. But NOTE, this is AFTER ALL of the events Mathew, Mark and Luke tell us will precede the final sign, which is the return of Christ.

A careful study distinguishes between the Great Tribulation and the Day of Wrath (also called the Day of the Lord).

The Great Tribulation begins in the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week when anti-Christ sets up the abomination of desolation in the third temple. This Great Tribulation is “cut short” for the sake of the elect. That is why it is cut short. But how?

It is cut short by the return of Christ. The Great Tribulation ends with signs in the heavens, such as the sun and moon being turned dark. Yet these same sign PRECEDE the Day of the Lord.

Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.

Revelation 6:12-16
I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Notice that it is AFTER these signs that the people who remain bewail the arrival of the Day of God’s Wrath. It is AFTER the signs in the heavens that we see the multitudes of Jews being sealed by God as His elect. It is AFTER these things that an innumerable number of elect are ushered into the presence of God from all “nations, tribes, peoples, and languages”. This is the rapture - not before Daniel’s seventieth week, not in the middle (when the Great Tribulation actually begins), not at the end (which would require the church to go through the outpouring of God’s wrath on the earth).

The author is correct that the rapture must occur before the Day of the Lord. He is incorrect in his assumption that the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord are the same.

Pray and study the scriptures, and ask God to reveal the truth about these things to you. He does not want His people to be deceived about what He is doing in the end times.


15 posted on 11/23/2014 3:46:12 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner

Thank you for your detailed post. I disagree with your conclusion that the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord are not the same thing.


19 posted on 11/23/2014 4:22:47 PM PST by wmfights
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To: unlearner; terycarl; boatbums; wmfights

Terycarl, see unlearners post above. That is how one intelligently debates a subject.

Unlearner good post. Especially the part where you exhort to read God’s word and pray.


21 posted on 11/23/2014 7:20:15 PM PST by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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