Posted on 11/23/2014 2:00:07 PM PST by wmfights
Not only is there no mention of the church in any passage describing the future tribulation, but there are specific promises given to the church that deliverance from that period is assured. According to 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Christians are promised, “For God appointed us not unto wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The wrath of God will be poured out upon the world during the great tribulation. Revelation 6:17 states, “For the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?” The character of the judgments which will fall is such that they will affect everyone—famine, pestilence, sword, earthquake, stars falling from heaven. The only way one could be kept from that day of wrath would be to be delivered beforehand.
The nature of the tribulation as revealed in Scripture constitutes, therefore, an important argument supporting the teaching that the church will not go through the tribulation. It has been shown that a literal interpretation of the tribulation does not produce any evidence that the church will be in this period. Important passages such as Deuteronomy 4:29-30; Jeremiah 30:4-11; Daniel 9:24-27; 12:1 ; Matthew 24:15-31; Revelation 4-19 ; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 5:4-9 do not indicate that the church will be in the tribulation period. It has been shown that the purpose of the tribulation is to purge and judge Israel and to punish and destroy Gentile power. In neither aspect is the church the object of the events of the period. In addition to these general arguments, the Scriptures also indicate that the believer in this present age will be kept from the time of wrath (1 Thess 1:9-10; 5:4-10 ; 2 Pet 2:6-9; Rev 3:10). Taken as a whole, the study of the tribulation as revealed in Scripture does not afford any support to a posttribulational translation of the saints.
These professing but unsaved members of the organized church in the world continue on earth through the tribulation and form the nucleus of the ungodly, apostate church of the tribulation which becomes the state of religion of that time. In this sense only, the church goes through the tribulation. In like manner, the nation Israel enters the tribulation in an unsaved condition and proceeds through the purging experiences which culminate in the second advent and the separation of those in Israel who turn to Christ in that period from those who worship the Antichrist.
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A very good book to read is “Agents of the Apocalypse” A riveting look at the key players of the end times, by Dr. David Jeremiah. He serves as senior pastor of Shadow Mountain Community Church in El Cajon, CA. And founder and host of Turning Point, a program providing Christians sound Bible teaching relevant to today’s changing times through radio television, internet and live events. He is committed to teaching the complete Word of God. I have been so impressed by his down to earth teaching of a very difficult subject.
Great read
I love it when people interpret the Bible to suit their own needs...it more clearly explains what is usually not meant by proper scripture interpretation....
Thank you for the recommendation.
“Don’t worry about taking back your government because God is just gonna teleport you away if it gets too bad....”
I think so too. He has so clearly explained why those that decided to interpret prophecy figuratively rather than first literally are so wrong. Such simple things as,
The character of the judgments which will fall is such that they will affect everyone—famine, pestilence, sword, earthquake, stars falling from heaven. The only way one could be kept from that day of wrath would be to be delivered beforehand.
If you had read the series from the beginning you would know that the adoption of figurative interpretation is what led to the rise of Amillennialism and Supersessionism and that this occurred well after the Apostolic Era ended. Why those that profess faith in Jesus Christ would not rely on a literal first understanding, rather than what some guy decides Scripture "really" means is something I will never understand.
If you have an interest in understanding the issues involved in this topic I would encourage you to do a search of Millennial Series and begin with the first article. I know it's a long read, but it is very illuminating.
wm...you are welcome.
Revelation 1:9 says that John himself was in the tribulation when he was was writing! So I have a few questions for you: www.prophecyquestions.wordpress.com. . . .
I love it when people come on threads which they have so obviously not even bothered to read and then posit conclusions they also obviously never bothered to research for themselves. I question what they could possibly know about what "proper" scripture interpretation entails.
Thanks for this series, Wmfights. It is extremely well researched, referenced and fits perfectly with ALL of God's sacred word as well as His plan for humanity. How anyone could possibly imagine the Body of Christ, His Bride, will be dragged through the Tribulation - the final pouring out of God's holy wrath upon the ungodly world system and those who bow down to it - is amazing to me.
The error of a pretribulational rapture stem only partially from a dispensational error and mostly from the assumption that Daniel’s seventieth week, the Great Tribulation, and the Day of the Lord (or day of wrath as the author points out) are all one and the same.
Dispensationalism is perhaps the strongest argument for a pretribulational rapture, however, it is misapplied here. God has indeed operated through various dispensations, and they are essential to proper biblical interpretation; but let me ask one thing: Does the existence of the Church preclude God’s fulfilling of His promises to Israel? No, the Church is not Israel, nor has it replaced Israel. Yet God is not bound to ignore His covenants with Abraham or Moses while He fulfills His New Testament (Covenant) by which all His elect are saved. While God is extending His superabounding grace through the Gospel, He is also preserving His earthly people, Israel, and bringing them back into the land promised to the patriarchs.
Further, we cannot separate the deep roots of the Church in Israel. All of the apostles were Jews. Almost all of the Bible was written by Jews. The second temple was not destroyed until 70 A.D., many years after the Church came into existence. And Israel, as promised by God, has never ceased to exist, even though we are in this present age of grace.
Now, to the larger error. Believers in the New Testament are warned of the coming anti-Christ as well as the anti-Christ spirit that was already operating.
The author mentions Revelation 3:10 which says, “Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” He argues that the meaning of keep here requires the removal of the church. I beg to differ. The same word is used in the Lord’s prayer for us:
John 17:15
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
It is clear that we can be kept from the evil one, kept from evil, and even kept from tribulation WITHOUT being taken out of the world.
The author attempts to explain Matthew 24 in a purely Jewish context, however, these are things he taught privately to Christ’s disciples. These are the apostles, the foundation of the church. More importantly, consider the larger context.
This passage and similar ones in Mark and Luke provide a series of events unique in human history which indicate the return of Christ is imminent.
Mark 13:29
So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors!
Notice that this same exact and unique sequence of events is presented in a different light (from the perspective of Heaven) in Revelation 6 where the Lamb (Christ) opens the first six seals of the scroll.
The author also quotes Revelation 6:17 where the “Day of Wrath” has come. But NOTE, this is AFTER ALL of the events Mathew, Mark and Luke tell us will precede the final sign, which is the return of Christ.
A careful study distinguishes between the Great Tribulation and the Day of Wrath (also called the Day of the Lord).
The Great Tribulation begins in the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week when anti-Christ sets up the abomination of desolation in the third temple. This Great Tribulation is “cut short” for the sake of the elect. That is why it is cut short. But how?
It is cut short by the return of Christ. The Great Tribulation ends with signs in the heavens, such as the sun and moon being turned dark. Yet these same sign PRECEDE the Day of the Lord.
Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
Revelation 6:12-16
I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
Notice that it is AFTER these signs that the people who remain bewail the arrival of the Day of God’s Wrath. It is AFTER the signs in the heavens that we see the multitudes of Jews being sealed by God as His elect. It is AFTER these things that an innumerable number of elect are ushered into the presence of God from all “nations, tribes, peoples, and languages”. This is the rapture - not before Daniel’s seventieth week, not in the middle (when the Great Tribulation actually begins), not at the end (which would require the church to go through the outpouring of God’s wrath on the earth).
The author is correct that the rapture must occur before the Day of the Lord. He is incorrect in his assumption that the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord are the same.
Pray and study the scriptures, and ask God to reveal the truth about these things to you. He does not want His people to be deceived about what He is doing in the end times.
I know the feeling and in a lot of ways it makes sense. I used to think we could sit down and reason with them from the Scriptures and in time they would see the errors that they've been taught as truths. I know from personal experience (my wife used to be RC) that overcoming the barrier of the institutional indoctrination is the hurdle that has to be overcome before even looking at Scripture. They are taught from very early on that defending their church is defending their faith. Included in that indoctrination is the belief that their priesthood is elevated and their church has power over interpretation. So when we engage them on the internet all we do is serve their self fulfilling fantasy that they are full of "real" faith because they defend their church no matter what.
The institutional church has attempted to create a fake theocracy. They never recognized that Jesus Christ in His first Advent did not establish the Kingdom because His mercy is so great that first He wanted to draw the gentiles to Him. The Kingdom will be established with His second Advent, but they won't be a part of that Theocracy. We can only hope that they see their error during the Great Tribulation.
You really should read the article before posting.
You're welcome.
I have the same impression of this series as you. I figured a lot of Evangelical Christians would really get theit "teeth into it" because it is so well done and Mr. Walvoord quotes so much Scripture.
How anyone could possibly imagine the Body of Christ, His Bride, will be dragged through the Tribulation - the final pouring out of God's holy wrath upon the ungodly world system and those who bow down to it - is amazing to me.
I agree. I think understanding who the Great Tribulation, or Day of the Lord, is for makes understanding why we aren't there easier. I believe in a PreTrib Rapture, but I can understand the MidTrib view. In the first 3.5 years all the judgements involve nature and in the 2nd half the judgements are poured out on mankind. A great example of how great God's love for us is, even when His wrath has come upon us He gives us the opportunity to repent and seek Him.
Thank you for your detailed post. I disagree with your conclusion that the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord are not the same thing.
Obviously you'd rather follow people who don't know or believe enough bible to even have an intelligent biblical discussion on the issue...You apparently can't debate it so you just deny it...
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