You are saved, ping!
An excellent, brief exposition.
You have to be a Protestant!
Let me complete this sentence from what I've heard from Catholics:
I knew he had come to save us and I sure hoped that I would be saved from Purgatory. My understanding being that they do not go directly to be with the Lord, but go to purgatory to deal with their sins and to be called out of purgatory into Heaven by the Catholic Church. It is that last step that one is declared a Saint.
And just like it was stated there is only a hope and no assurance.
As for me I believe Christ's words "who ever believes in me has eternal life" (Gospel of John 6:47).
Now which would you like, assurance of Eternal Life or no assurance of Heaven? That it depends on human men on this earth or that it is the free gift for those who believe?
Question then becomes... can you lose your salvation?
If the answer is yes, then you cannot say you are or have been saved.... because you would lose it daily.
Yes, I am. But do I have the same understanding of its meaning now as when I was first baptized? No, I think I have a better understanding of it now than 50+ years ago.
Because Catholics never post threads about, or even think about Protestants PING
Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit; (NRSV - Catholic Ed.)
and again...
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with which you were marked with a seal for the day of redemption. (NRSV - Catholic Ed.)
The believer is sealed in the Holy Spirit which cannot be broken, only by the one intended to open the sealed gift, which is Christ. So, it there any way one can lose their salvation? Jesus says this:
Matthew 12:31- 32 Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (NRSV - Catholic Ed.)
And how does one blaspheme against the Holy Spirit? It isn’t clearly explained but I believe it is to grieve the Spirit in some excessive way such as ascribing some evil to the Spirit or renouncing one’s salvation or perhaps committing suicide.
I don’t believe it can be lost for most common sins (I hate to categorize them as common because all sin is against God) but what good would it do for salvation to be turned on and off like a light switch based on your last thought or action? It would make any honest person incredibly anxious knowing their salvation can be easily lost with a momentary slip.
As I have aged, I believe all the more that our God sees us as the vulnerable short-sighted children that we are and that He has taken it upon Himself to see that our salvation is secure and the only way it can be lost is by some deliberate action of defiant rejection of God’s free gift.
A requirement of confession and absolution for every common transgression would lose every soul that died suddenly by a bullet, a plane crash, a heart attack or car accident that had no time to seek a priest before they expired.
Perhaps this explains why so many ex-Catholics, tired of living under constant eternal uncertainty, seek relief through a church that believes God knows our lives from beginning to end and forgives generously, with rare exception, to all those who earnestly seek Him.
Catholics like to confuse the unknowing by saying they were" born again in baptism " , but the truth is a catholic does not know if they are "saved" until they meet the judge ... This is just word games
But the real interesting question is saved from what?
I think all these Protestant attack stories you guys post are written by the same person...The stories are always identical with a few name changes...
“he Protestant friends of my youth would tell me that once I was saved, there was nothing I could do, no matter how terribly sinful, that could separate me from God and cause me to lose my salvation.”
This article misstates the evangelical view.
Going by God’s Word, evangelicals know there are false Christians, people who profess to be Christians but are not, because God’s Word says so. A common way evangelicals speak of this today is that standing in a garage doesn’t make you a car. Going to church, or any other Christian practice, doesn’t make you reborn. If you’re not, then baptism only produces a wet sinner (another commonly used expression). In fact, evangelicals commonly speak of how Christians should examine themselves to make sure that they’ve actually accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and haven’t just gone through the motions.
The assurance that one is saved, though, is important because it is an assurance, an assurance that salvation is a free gift to those who actually are heart-broken over their sin against God and want His forgiveness, and know that even with all their desire and effort to do right, they still commit sin. The Gospel is an assurance to “those who mourn” over sin, especially their own, and not to those who can’t truly be grieved about their sin in order to see their need for a Savior if they want to continue in sin.
Maybe this man’s teenage friends could have explained the Gospel a little better, but it’s unlikely they would have expected to meet anyone so hardened, twisted, and already so deep into evil and unafraid of God that the person would want to use Jesus’ sacrificial death as a license to deliberately and knowingly sin against God. The worst-case scenario of someone young coming to Christ and then later committing some “huge sin” is only that, and the person would be expected to repent.
ANd ultimately, as the Bible says, in this life only God knows for sure in every case what’s in people’s hearts. There are false Christians, and while Catholics would say they lost their salvation, evangelicals would say that those who turn out not to be Christians never truly were in the first place. As the Bible says, those who are the Lord’s persevere until the end.
Hopefully, others see this blatant contradiction. If our good works, things we do, do not save us and it is by grace through faith that we are saved, then how can salvation be lost based on something we have done? Either we are saved by grace or we are saved by works. Scripture is clear that it cannot be both as they cancel each other out.
Augustine on Final Preservation:
“But of such as these [the Elect] none perishes, because of all that the Father has given Him, He will lose none. John 6:39 Whoever, therefore, is of these does not perish at all; nor was any who perishes ever of these. For which reason it is said, They went out from among us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would certainly have continued with us. 1 John 2:19”. (Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints)
“I assert, therefore, that the perseverance by which we persevere in Christ even to the end is the gift of God; and I call that the end by which is finished that life wherein alone there is peril of falling.” (Augustine, On the Perseverance of the Saints)
"Will any one dare to say that this perseverance is not the gift of God, and that so great a possession as this is ours in such wise that if any one have it the apostle could not say to him, 'For what hast thou which thou hast not received?'[ 2] since he has this in such a manner as that he has not received it?" To this, indeed, we are not able to deny, that perseverance in good, progressing even to the end, is also a great gift of God; and that it exists not save it come from Him of whom it is written, "Every best gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights." (Augustine, Treatise on Rebuke and Grace, Ch. 10)
"... the human will does not obtain grace by freedom, but obtains freedom by grace; when the feeling of delight has been imparted through. the same grace, the human will is formed to endure; it is strengthened with unconquerable fortitude; controlled by grace, it never will perish, but, if grace forsake it, it will straightway fall; by the Lord's free mercy it is converted to good, and once converted it perseveres in good; the direction of the human will toward good, and after direction its continuation in good, depend solely upon God's will, not upon any merit of man. Thus there is left to man such free will, if we please so to call it, as he elsewhere describes: that except through grace the will can neither be converted to God nor abide in God; and whatever it can do it is able to do only through grace. "(Augustine, Aurelius. Augustine's Writings on Grace and Free WIll (Kindle Locations 45-46). Monergism Books. Kindle Edition.)
Justification presupposes man’s free act of will to accept and cooperate with this grace. God does not force this action or state on man. Human freedom is a secondary, but, essential element.
Augustine teaches that salvation is by "man's free will," in the sense that God illuminates the heart, making it alive again, and with love irresistibly draws the sinner to salvation. In other words, God draws us willingly, but it is impossible for a blind man to be given sight and to not see the face of His God. IOW, this is not something that man can resist, nor can it be properly said to be "cooperation" in the Roman Catholic sense, that they earned it. Rather, it is by the will of God entirely, without the "willing" or "running" of man: More from Augustine on this topic here:
“And further, should any one be inclined to boast, not indeed of his works, but of the freedom of his will, as if the first merit belonged to him, this very liberty of good action being given to him as a reward he had earned, let him listen to this same preacher of grace, when he says: “For it is God which works in you, both to will and to do of His own good pleasure;” (Php 2:13) and in another place: “So, then, it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy.” (Rom 9:16) Now as, undoubtedly, if a man is of the age to use his reason, he cannot believe, hope, love, unless he will to do so, nor obtain the prize of the high calling of God unless he voluntarily run for it; in what sense is it not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy, except that, as it is written, “the preparation of the heart is from the Lord?” Otherwise, if it is said, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy, because it is of both,” that is, both of the will of man and of the mercy of God, so that we are to understand the saying, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy,” as if it meant the will of man alone is not sufficient, if the mercy of God go not with it—then it will follow that the mercy of God alone is not sufficient, if the will of man go not with it; and therefore, if we may rightly say, it is not of man that wills, but of God that shows mercy, because the will of man by itself is not enough, why may we not also rightly put it in the converse way: “It is not of God that shows mercy, but of man that wills,” because the mercy of God by itself does not suffice? Surely, if no Christian will dare to say this, “It is not of God that shows mercy, but of man that wills,” lest he should openly contradict the apostle, it follows that the true interpretation of the saying, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy,” is that the whole work belongs to God, who both makes the will of man righteous, and thus prepares it for assistance, and assists it when it is prepared.” (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Ch. 32)
“And, moreover, who will be so foolish and blasphemous as to say that God cannot change the evil wills of men, whichever, whenever, and wheresoever He chooses, and direct them to what is good? But when He does this He does it of mercy; when He does it not, it is of justice that He does it not for “He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens.” And when the apostle said this, he was illustrating the grace of God, in connection with which he had just spoken of the twins in the womb of Rebecca, who “being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calls, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.” And in reference to this matter he quotes another prophetic testimony: “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” But perceiving how what he had said might affect those who could not penetrate by their understanding the depth of this grace: “What shall we say then?” he says: “Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.” For it seems unjust that, in the absence of any merit or demerit, from good or evil works, God should love the one and hate the other. Now, if the apostle had wished us to understand that there were future good works of the one, and evil works of the other, which of course God foreknew, he would never have said, not of works, but, of future works, and in that way would have solved the difficulty, or rather there would then have been no difficulty to solve. As it is, however, after answering, God forbid; that is, God forbid that there should be unrighteousness with God; he goes on to prove that there is no unrighteousness in God’s doing this, and says: “For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” “ (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Chapter 98. Predestination to Eternal Life is Wholly of God’s Free Grace.)
"We know that God's grace is not given to all men . To those to whom it is given it is given neither according to the merits of works, nor according to the merits of the will, but by free grace. To those to whom it is not given we know that it is because of God's righteous judgment that it is not given." (Augustine, Treatise On Rebuke and Grace)
“But that world which God is in Christ reconciling unto Himself, which is saved by Christ, and has all its sins freely pardoned by Christ, has been chosen out of the world that is hostile, condemned, and defiled. For out of that mass, which has all perished in Adam, are formed the vessels of mercy, whereof that world of reconciliation is composed, that is hated by the world which belongeth to the vessels of wrath that are formed out of the same mass and fitted to destruction. Finally, after saying, “If ye were of the world, the world would love its own,” He immediately added, “But because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” And so these men were themselves also of that world, and, that they might no longer be of it, were chosen out of it, through no merit of their own, for no good works of theirs had preceded; and not by nature, which through free-will had become totally corrupted at its source: but gratuitously, that is, of actual grace. For He who chose the world out of the world, effected for Himself, instead of finding, what He should choose: for “there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace. And if by grace,” he adds, “then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.”” (Tractates on the Gospel of John, 15:17-19)
My child; you may THINK you know what that verse means; but you CAN rely upon what the Church has taught you.
Go and sin no more.
Listening to Protestants will only confuse you.