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Amillenarians group together the judgment of the nations (Matt 25:31-46), the judgment of the church (2 Cor 5:9-11), the judgment of Israel (Ezek 20:33-38), the judgment of the martyrs (Rev 20:4-6), the judgment of the wicked dead (Rev 20:11-15), and the judgment of the angels (2 Pet 2:4; Rev 20:10).

The amillenarian can deal lightly with the various Scripture passages involved, and with no attempt to explain them literally. The difference in character between the church being judged in heaven and the living nations being judged on earth as in Matthew 25 is glossed over and made the same event, even though there is no mention whatever of either the church or of resurrection in Matthew 25. The judgment of martyrs before the millennium and the judgment of the wicked dead after the millennium as outlined in Revelation 20 is brought together by the expedient of denying the existence of the millennium after the second advent.

Certainly if one is to reject a doctrine because it is complicated, no theologian could for a moment accept the doctrine of the Trinity or debate the fine points of the relation of the two natures in Jesus Christ.

1 posted on 08/17/2014 10:21:22 AM PDT by wmfights
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To: wmfights; Kandy Atz; Mrs.Z; CynicalBear; Iscool; amigatec; kjam22; boatbums; imardmd1; metmom; ...
Dispensational Ping List

If you would like to be added to this ping list please mail me.

2 posted on 08/17/2014 10:23:06 AM PDT by wmfights
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To: wmfights
The Millennial Series is an interesting read. However, as a Historic Premill (HP), it's non-mention of HP is irritating. The way this series reads, one would think that it is only the Amills who dispute the dispensational and pretrib scenario described by Berkhof:

Why should there not be three or four resurrections instead of one? What is wrong with there being two peoples on earth? Why on the face of it should we dispute the distinction between the rapture and the second coming? The answer is simply that it contradicts amillennialism, but it does not contradict the Bible literally interpreted.

HP's also believe there is only one first resurrection (Rev. 20) literally interpreted. One elect people of God, one second coming, literally interpreted. And we are premillennialists!

I only bring this up to correct the misconception one would get from reading your series, that there is only two possible eschatological views in consideration, Dispensationalist Premill and Amill. There is a third view, Historic Premill, which is not represented.

4 posted on 08/17/2014 12:42:02 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: wmfights; boatbums; redleghunter; CynicalBear; Iscool; Lee N. Field; metmom

to say dispensationalists are confused, is to be kind.

to prove this, I would like one to define “Israel” for me.

Paul says famously in Romans 11 “and so all Israel will be saved”.

who is Israel??


6 posted on 08/17/2014 8:18:54 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: wmfights
The doctrine of the eternal state, however, is for the most part one of agreement rather than disagreement. Those who distinguish the program of God for Israel and the church find them fulfilled in the eternal state in the respective spheres of the new earth and the new heavens. While this is rejected by the amillenarians who merge all the saints of all ages into one mass of redeemed humanity, it is not of the same importance theologically as other points of divergence. Reformed amillenarians and premillenarians unite on the important point of a literal eternity, in which both heaven and hell will be peopled.

There are so very many Scripture passages that speak of the new heaven and new earth that I find it incredulous that Amillennials imagine this old, corrupted and fallen earth and the heaven, where the angels rebelled and were cast to earth, is all that Almighty God has planned for. I remember reading in 2 Peter 3:10-13:

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

It struck me how we make so much fuss over material things and place such importance on them for our happiness, yet, when we realize that ALL these things will be destroyed and only what is done for Christ will last, that our "treasure" is secure with God, it has to influence the kind of people we are and will be.

God's promise of a new heaven and earth has always been a promise that HE will fulfill. He said through the prophet Isaiah:

See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands. They will not labor in vain, nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the Lord, they and their descendants with them. Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the Lord. (Isaiah 65:17-25)

"For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me," declares the LORD, "So your offspring and your name will endure. "And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD. (Isaiah 66:22,23)

8 posted on 08/17/2014 10:05:53 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: wmfights

There is nothing to argue about, Jesus said very plainly that he was going to come back and rapture the good people like me out of this hell hole and after that he was going to come back and rule for a thousand years.


9 posted on 08/17/2014 11:28:51 PM PDT by ravenwolf (s)
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To: wmfights

150 posted on 08/22/2014 3:54:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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